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Old 09-29-2008, 11:05 PM   #51 (permalink)
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why cant your life have meaning and there be something beyond?
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Old 09-30-2008, 03:29 AM   #52 (permalink)
 
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Its hard to know if there is a god, afterall religion defies science. Its absurd to think that humans were created my a big bearded man in the sky, when we all know that we evolved from micro-organisms over the course of time.

To be honest i think the Christian religion is nothing more than a glorified cult. Of course Jesus exisited but he was not who we think he is. He did not come from a poor family, he was not of virgin birth, he was not the son of god, he married Mary Magdelene and quite possibly had a child.

The christian religion was started in Rome as a new way to win over and control the minds of people by putting the fear of damnation into them. The truth is no one knows where we go when we die.
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Old 09-30-2008, 06:20 AM   #53 (permalink)
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why cant your life have meaning and there be something beyond?
It isn't that my life would absolutely lack any meaning, just that whatever personal meaning I could derive from it would be comparatively insignificant.
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Old 09-30-2008, 07:11 AM   #54 (permalink)
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i'm with Little Know It All

if there wasn't going to be anything after this life
that would rob the meaning of it for me

before i became a Christian
the afterlife i was looking forward to was becoming one with the universe

now that i am a Christian
the afterlife i'm looking forward to is becoming one with God

and it may be that they are one and the same thing

but for now
i know i have a purpose -- i might not know what it is but i have one
i know i'm living a basically ethical life
i know that when i die i will go to heaven and the only hell i need to concern myself with is the one other people are making of this world

i wish there was a good way to explain it to all of you
so that you could know that deep peace of spirit
but until you have your own personal epiphany
you won't be able to understand and you won't want to hear it

so

i'll QFT
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Old 09-30-2008, 12:19 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Living for something you can't prove to be true has to be the saddest way to live life. I've never been able to understand how people of faith are so content wasting their potential on the improbable instead of living for what is known to be true. Furthermore, ethics are subjective. Sure you find it ethical to do Christian things but I see it as a great injustice not only to yourself, but to those around you, to profess blind faith of any sort.

Also, a universe with no all knowing beings is a universe with much more inherent freedom, and thus a more hopeful universe. Freedom and hope are joyous things. I'd find it reasonable to conclude that a universe with God is definitely less joyous than a universe without God.
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Old 09-30-2008, 12:53 PM   #56 (permalink)
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I would have absolutely no problem with organized religion if it were practiced as it was surely intended to by the authors of it's fundamental scriptures - faith in the benevolence of human beings more than anything else - unfortunately, there are a multitude competing for our souls/money/social influence and any sense of unity or optimism is beyond reproach for myself and anybody with a brain.

If it's really every man for himself and philosophical elitism all round then fair enough. I've been raised on the principles of Western capitalism too, and I fall into the age group of the post-post-modern cynic but I'm no nihilist...

I just don't know what to believe, that's the problem. argh. I just know I'm over looking for a cold, mathematical equation for everything under the sun. That's not what life's about. (imo)
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:32 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrenza View Post
if there wasn't going to be anything after this life
that would rob the meaning of it for me
Why? Isn't the beauty (and ugliness) all around you meaningful enough?


There's a Townes Van Zandt song about living life to the fullest:


I won't say I love you, babe
I won't say I need you, babe
But I'm gonna' get you, babe
And I will not do you wrong
Living's mostly wasting time
And I waste my share of mine
But it never feels too good
So let's don't take too long
Well, you're soft as glass and I'm a gentle man
We got the sky to talk about
And the world to lie upon

Days up and down they come
Like rain on a conga drum
Forget most, remember some
But don't turn none away
Everything is not enough,
And nothing is too much to bear
Where you've been is good and gone
All you keep is the getting there
Well, to live's to fly, both low and high
So shake the dust off of your wings
And the sleep out of your eyes

It's goodbye to all my friends
It's time to leave again
Here's to all the poetry
And the pickin' down the line
I'll miss the system here
The bottom's low and the treble's clear
But it don't pay to think too much
On things you leave behind
Well, I may be gone, but it won't be long
I'll be bringing back the melody
And the rhythm that I find

We all got holes to fill.
Those holes are all that's real
Some fall on you like a storm
Sometimes you dig your own
The choice is yours to make
The time is yours to take
Some dive into the sea
Some toil upon the stone
Well, to live's to fly, both low and high
So shake the dust off of your wings
And the sleep out of your eye
Shake the dust off of your wings
And the tears out of your eye



...and I don't think the hope of an afterlife is necessary to "shake the dust off of your wings/And the sleep out of your eyes."


I'm siding with the Unfan here; if everything decays, that makes living right now even more important and makes every day that much more valuable, every moment more powerful, every action more meaningful.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:41 PM   #58 (permalink)
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While I agree to an extent, I think that the main visualization of an afterlife is to dim the banality of death. Even for a Christian, death is still death, and the comfort of afterlife will certainly help allay any fears people have about the unknown.

Also, to note: nowhere in the Bible are pearly gates mentioned. In fact, the Bible doesn't seem to quantify afterlife by any worldy means. It just refers to the afterlife as unity with God, which can be interpreted in many, many ways. The point is, even Christians aren't offered a utopia.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:08 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unfan View Post
Living for something you can't prove to be true has to be the saddest way to live life.
the fact is
i cant prove anything
so i have to have faith and trust
in science
that what i'm told is true IS indeed true

so i guess i was living a sad life to begin with

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unfan View Post
I've never been able to understand how people of faith are so content wasting their potential on the improbable instead of living for what is known to be true. Furthermore, ethics are subjective. Sure you find it ethical to do Christian things but I see it as a great injustice not only to yourself, but to those around you, to profess blind faith of any sort.
just the opposite was true for me, Unfan

i didn't realize my potential until i became a Christian

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unfan View Post
Also, a universe with no all knowing beings is a universe with much more inherent freedom, and thus a more hopeful universe. Freedom and hope are joyous things. I'd find it reasonable to conclude that a universe with God is definitely less joyous than a universe without God.
i'm not sure how much more freedom you could gain without Him
since God gives us all free will

i was thinking about the homeless people the other day
and about how they are truly free
but its a freedom that leaves them less
in their lives and in their spirits

thats what i was before becoming a Christian
and believe me when i tell you

THAT is the saddest way to live life
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:16 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lucifer_sam View Post
While I agree to an extent, I think that the main visualization of an afterlife is to dim the banality of death. Even for a Christian, death is still death, and the comfort of afterlife will certainly help allay any fears people have about the unknown.

Also, to note: nowhere in the Bible are pearly gates mentioned. In fact, the Bible doesn't seem to quantify afterlife by any worldy means. It just refers to the afterlife as unity with God, which can be interpreted in many, many ways. The point is, even Christians aren't offered a utopia.

i can honestly say that i am not afraid of death
it is a part of life and i was down with that before becoming a Christian

now however i know where i'm going
and just like any traveller along any road
having the directions is making the trip so much easier and more enjoyable

and for Christians

unity with God IS utopia
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