The Batlord

Oh god! You're my favorite fundie right now. You crack me up. Seriously, your arguements just disprove themselves.

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s_k

Ah, finally lost my status of 'worst argumentalist' .
Thanks Maccabe .

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Maccabbe

The level of the discussion here is going down hill.

s_k

Allright, if you want this to end well, I suggest you stop discussing your religion and talk about music from now on.
Music binds. Religion seperates (that's the way I think about it at least).

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Freebase Dali

Nah, music separates too. Try posting a thread arguing for the merits of popular Nu Metal. You may end up turning to Jesus for company...

RVCA

Poor Nu Metal....

s_k

The serious disappointment in the human race thread may come in handy .

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Guybrush

Although I also find Maccabbe's claims to be extremely unreasonable and so on and may occasionally write with some hostility in the heat of the debate, I don't particularly appreciate posts and comments which only ridicule. Despite how you feel about it, Maccabbe is posting about his religious beliefs which is roughly on topic. Although I don't agree with what he writes or the way he argues, I do prefer it if people who share his world view can post about it here so we can have a somewhat serious discussion without it degenerating into only simple ridicule where no proper arguments are made.

So, if you're not posting to add to the discussion, but only to join the mob in ridiculing a religious poster, then I think you should reconsider before clicking the submit button. This is a discussion thread and if you think arguments truly are idiotic, then it should be easy for you to counter them with reason.

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Something Completely Different

TockTockTock

I was about to post that I was surprised that this thread is still active, but you know what? I'm really not. People debate about the existence of God all the time. ALL THE TIME. And it never goes anywhere. Both the atheists and the theists cling to their guns and rarely ever budge. This debate will go on forever even if there's proof that God doesn't exist. I think we should all take a look at the teachings of Laotse and learn from them. It doesn't matter if God exists or not - it's redundant and pointless. If God DOES exist then he won't care if you believe in him or not because if he did then he would be violating the "sin" of pride (which is mentioned in Biblical text as being one of the biggies). IF God exists then all he cares about is you leading a joyful life and work on improving your morality. It has already been proven that man innately wants to believe in a higher power to fulfill the need of having some sort of "fatherly figure" to look after him or her. It has already been proven that there is no need for a God to create the universe. But studies have also shown that the belief in a religion is healthy for you both physically and mentally (I won't get into this though, if you don't believe me look up studies done by the A.P.A.).Anyways, stop bitching about this and move on with your lives.

Sorry if this sounds a bit rude, but come on now. Let's stop this nonsense. Maccabe, I am sorry for my patronizing comment earlier, I had no right to criticize your religious beliefs. But if you're going to start an argument with these guys, then I suggest you make a good one and not quote things you aren't too keen on.

Maccabbe

Virtually every single website that I had the chance to visit, I encountered the same story.

A moderator who is very liberal and in fact openly an atheist posts a general statement about giving members the opportunity to discuss religion in respectful and tolerant manner without insulting each other.

After that statement, the liberals and the atheists bring their meteoric avalanche of vicious attacks on religion blaming all the world’s ills and misfortunes on it. This goes for some time, and then I become a member of that site, and I make a general statement that I don’t want to create any enemies or to make fun of people or to insult people, all I want is to express my ideas and convictions about the subject of religion and to debate it intellectually and respectfully. After that, I make my first presentation, some spontaneous ideas and beliefs that enter my mind. There is very little time that passes after that and the personal attacks, vicious anti Semitic insults, people calling me ‘Kike’ and 'Rich' and other undignified vituperations, while all along these atheist ‘Balanced’ site moderators and administrators do nothing to stop it, not only they don’t stop it, but they join in the assault.

Why?

Because the motive was wrong to begin with. These moderatos, masqueraded their utter contempt of religion as ‘an open and fair dialogue about spirituality’ but their main objective was to attack religion.

As soon as I opened my mouth and made some solid and thought provoking comments that utterly destroyed all the nonsense that the various religion hating members have posted, the discussion takes a drastic turn from ‘Bashing religion’ into ‘Bashing those who protect it’.

This has been the same perpetual never ending turn of events with all these religious discussions.

To your credit, I find this site more restraint and open and actually interested in real dialogue then all the other sites that I have been a member of.

For my beliefs and for my courage of not been afraid to state them openly against a mob of hostile attackers, I have been banned from 3 music websites, and I willfully left another music website because the moderators were more vicious in their hate of Religion then the members themselves, so I had to delete my account with them and leave.

I am still waiting for a real religious debate to take place in any of the music websites.

All there is today are ‘Attack religion threads’ but not a single serious truth seeking and balanced and fair discussion that actually wants to hear the other side and not use the thread as a jumping board to attack religion and its followers.

But as I mentioned, this site as of now, is better then all the other sites, even with the personal insults, because some members here are honest, and are willing to engage in a meaningful discussion, and even those who attack and insult keep their hostility at a tolerable level.

We need to change the rules of the game when we talk about religion in these kinds of internet based discussions from those who want to attack religion ‘without demanding any factual evidence’, while demanding from the protectors of religion just that ‘ factual evidence’.

If I am supposed to bring factual evidence to defend my beliefs, those who attack religion have to play by the same rules, bring factual evidence to solidify their claim, and not make general personal observations that express their contempt of religion.

Another important thing would be to stop trying to be funny, or witty, by acting as a clown by hurling and casting insults and funny icon faces at people. If someone feels that he wants to be funny, then there is a place for him to go, its called a circus.

I’m not suggesting to throw out the sense of humor completely from these discussions, but to do all these things in the context of self respect while focusing on staying on subject and not derail it into avenues that have nothing to do with our topic at hand.

I should be permitted to state my opinions as a free human being, openly without been vilified and ridiculed and attacked. Its easy to join the mob, so please take into an account that you the atheists are many and the creationists like myself here are few, so by resorting to mob tactics you wont win any debates, you will only radicalize yourselves, and end up agreeing with yourselves about everything because you are not willing to give the chance of freedom of speech and expression to the other side.

Regards,

Saul