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Old 10-15-2008, 02:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default The Election (no not that one, the OTHER one)

What a waste of time and money to have an election this month. Another minority government; it's baffling that Harper couldn't have won a majority in even these times. The Liberal leadership was a joke, his economic plans were nonsensical at best, and he made no move whatsoever to cater to voters in western canada, to where the majority of the wealth and business in the country is shifting. We're also in an economic crisis and the guy is a freakin economist!

Layton made some true gains, but Duceppe perhaps did better than any other candidate given his party history. To go from being practically irrelevant to having 50 seats in one night is unbelievable. I've said it before and I'll say it again, when someone has 50 seats in parliament and yet is only operating in one province, there needs to be an adjustment in our electoral system. Some type of proportional representation needs to happen.

This was relevant in the green party as well. In MANY ridings the green candidate was second in terms of percentage of votes, but because they never won the majority, they did not get any seats. Not that I think the green party would be fit to form any kind of government, but it would be nice if their concerns were heard among the other parties.

Having said that, I think that while the election was an absolute waste of time and money and nothing was gained, the outcome isn't all that bad. As much as I am not a conservative, the Liberal party is by no means a better option. A carbon tax at this time would sink the economy, it's a bad idea, it should not even be entertained. Later on, whenever the world finally pulls itself up out of this recession, then maybe it can be put on the table for further discussion.

Along that line, Canada's economy is one of the most stable economies in the world. Harper's government has been decently good at managing that, however much it has screwed up in regards to health care and social programs. So if the liberals, NDP, and *shudder* bloc can form some kind of coalition government, maybe the conservatives can be persuaded to put funding in other areas such as health care, social services, and, dare I say it, the arts. Though they'd probably have to torture a confession from that uncultured robot that the arts are worth funding.

Lastly, both the liberals and the conservatives need new leadership. harper has proven that he is not electable in canada as a majority leader. dion is just an out of touch twat who is not connected to any part of canada aside from his own backyard. My hope would be that justin trudeau stepped up to lead the liberal party in the future.
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm surprised the liberals didn't do worse. How anyone can take Dion seriously is beyond me.
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I have to disagree with you on the carbon tax: why not now?
Although Canada is in a bit of a recession like other countries, the economy is good enough to impose $10 per tonne of CO2; in Sweden it's $150!
I think it would bring more investment to Canada, improve air pollution conditions so less people would actually need to go to the doctor, and give lower-middle class individuals stronger tax cuts than Harper currently is.

But jeez, supporting the Liberals right now...
It's hard not to when Elizabeth May (At least she's willing to bend for a general consensus, unlike Ralph Nader) said to vote Liberal in close ridings, but Dion!
He's like a member of Bloc in disguise almost.
I'm just sick of Harper's deregulations though; it has to stop.

Who are you voting for Jibber?
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jibber View Post

Layton made some true gains, but Duceppe perhaps did better than any other candidate given his party history. To go from being practically irrelevant to having 50 seats in one night is unbelievable. I've said it before and I'll say it again, when someone has 50 seats in parliament and yet is only operating in one province, there needs to be an adjustment in our electoral system. Some type of proportional representation needs to happen.
irrelevant? how so? by getting 1 LESS seat than the last election? duceppe has been major political face since the 90s. the bloc managed to become the official opposition in their very first election in 1993 with 54 seats and have been a significant opposition factor since. the most 'irrelevant' point in their history was in 2000 when the bloc only had 38 seats. it looked as if the whole separation thing was waning and people were starting to relax a bit more and then the auditor general noticed the sponsorship scandal which just lit a whole new fire under them just in time for the 2004 election that saw them tie their first result with 54 seats again.

i think the fact that the bloc can routinely secure about 50 out of the province's 75 seats proves that having strong candidates for a focused party can lead to significant gains. unlike all the other parties trying to touch everyone by spreading themselves thin and letting just about anyone run on their behalf.

if anything i'd rather see more regional parties that stick to the areas they know best and focus on developing those areas. proportional representation would be nice but how do you decide who's voice counts to a specific candidate and who only speaks proportionately?
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Who are you voting for Jibber?
the election was yesterday.
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I type whicked fast,
http://www.myspace.com/wallofpanda (updated 06/28/09-ish)
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Old 10-15-2008, 05:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Sorry, I live in a different country.
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Old 10-15-2008, 05:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
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no worries. most canadians didn't seem to notice either (it was one of the lowest voter turnouts ever)
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Old 10-15-2008, 05:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Wow, 59.1%!
That's almost as low as the U.S. and Canadians actually have political efficacy.
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Old 10-15-2008, 05:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Trauma View Post
I have to disagree with you on the carbon tax: why not now?
Although Canada is in a bit of a recession like other countries, the economy is good enough to impose $10 per tonne of CO2; in Sweden it's $150!
I think it would bring more investment to Canada, improve air pollution conditions so less people would actually need to go to the doctor, and give lower-middle class individuals stronger tax cuts than Harper currently is.

But jeez, supporting the Liberals right now...
It's hard not to when Elizabeth May (At least she's willing to bend for a general consensus, unlike Ralph Nader) said to vote Liberal in close ridings, but Dion!
He's like a member of Bloc in disguise almost.
I'm just sick of Harper's deregulations though; it has to stop.


Who are you voting for Jibber?
I'm all for a carbon tax, but I think it better to wait until the extent of the economic crisis is known. No one can predict how bad the situation will get. The only thing economists are venturing to say about it is "it will reach bottom when it reaches bottom" and "we don't know." I believe it would be better not to add another strain on an already very unstable market. Right now it is just starting, the US economy, not only the stock market, could be facing a collapse. At that point, 80% of our exports are in serious jeopardy. Yes sweden's carbon tax is 150%, but they don't rely on oil exports and revenues nearly as much as we do for our economic welfare. Its not a sound comparison as our markets and commodities are so completely different. Once this current situation blows over, or we can at least evaluate the extent the damage will be, then I would love to see a carbon tax imposed.

And I agree with harper, which is why I was so pleased with the minority government once more. Harper's big environmental concession was to stop bitumen exports to countries with less environmental standards than canada, which, does not rule out much since ours are currently among the worst. big freakin deal. I hope that the conservative party will be able to weather the economic storm, be kept in check by the liberals and other parties, and once the global market stabilizes, another election can be called, by which point the liberals will have found an electable leader.

And I voted green. Even thought I think May is still a bit of a nutjob, I'd very much like to see more advocates for environmental change in parliament.
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Old 10-16-2008, 09:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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First of all, on the note of Liberal leadership for the future, it is clear that Dion will have to end up stepping down, who will replace him? I would think likely Michael Ignatieff, possibly Bob Rae, that is if the people can get over his past mistakes.. Cough Cough. I agree, Justin wouldn't be a bad choice but he is young and relatively new to politics. Personally I think right now it would be a good move for the Liberals and the NDP to merge.

As for the debate, I think it is unfortunate that the Conservatives did not gain a majority government, but I would disagree that it was a complete waste of time and money, although it ended up costing the people of Canada $300 million. On the bright side, the conservatives did manage to gain seats and the Liberals are completely broke...

When it comes to the Green Party, I do share some of the sympathy expressed by Jibber, however I feel that they are comletely unnecessary and I can't help but laugh a little bit that Elizabeth May didn't even win in her own riding. But in all seriousness, the Greens don't even have a platform, they just love the environment. The Bloc just makes me angry, unfortunately our government allows anyone to run, even if they are only running in one province. To Mr. Dave, they reason they are able to pull off so many seats is because of our First Pass the Post electoral system. Another reason they can get so many seats, it isn't particularily hard to win votes if the only place you are riding in will greatly benefit from every decision your party influences and with fifty seats, the Bloc is very powerful.

Carbon Tax... Stupid. I know the Liberals were promising tax breaks for the everyday Canadian, but taxing the big companies will just raise the prices of everything and the extra cash you get back from the government will simply be spent because of the higher prices of products. As well, some companies may even relocate, the few factories that are left won't stick around for higher taxes, this will kill jobs and our GDP.

I think it is clear that I am a staunch conservative, but my personal bias aside, this country has been a majority Liberal government for quite a while now, in a time of economic uncertainty, I think we need to realise that the Conservaitve platform makes the most sense right now. (hmmm, that is actually pretty biased...)

On a side note, the Harper government passed a bill to have elections on regular intervals, like the American system, it seems that the deal was that the next upcoming election was exempt from this seeing as Harper called this last one. Do we expect this to take effect now? Will the next election be in four years?
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