Physical discipline against children .. okay or not?

Barnard17 · 08-20-2009, 06:55 PM

**** "physical discipline", when my child misbehaves I'm fetching the anthrax. Lets see them leave out the toys a second time ...

As a standard I'm pretty much with JJJ and Vegangelica's stance on this.

Fruitonica · 08-20-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toretorden

(Strangely, noone here have yet criticized these publishings for being tainted by hidden variables or anything else which actually could be valid arguments.)

I think I did a while ago.

However, I'm definitely convinced that smacking isn't particularly effective as a measure of discipline and I won't be using it on any children I might have. When I said I was okay with it, I just didn't perceive it as immoral.

VEGANGELICA · 08-21-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayJamJah

Q: Is it possible that if a child has physical discipline used against them that they are more likely to be physically aggressive?

A: YES

Q: Is it possible that physical discipline can physically or emotionally hurt a child or create resentment?

A: YES

Q: Do you ever "want" to hit someone you love?

A: NO

Q: Is it possible to raise a child successfully without using physical discipline?

A: YES

Q: Are you going to use physical discipline against your children?

A:

Good questions to provoke thought, JayJamJah!

The article to which I provided a link in my reply to Freebase Dali earlier states clearly that many people, especially in the U.S., still believe the myth that corporal punishment (defined as causing pain but not permanent physical damage) of children is sometimes required to keep them in line. This myth is based on the idea that the proper way to raise children is to punish them when they misbehave.

I feel punishing people with pain is unethical...and actually I oppose the idea of punishing at all and instead support disciplining children.

What is the difference between Discipline and Punishment of children?

Discipline vs. Punishment
(from Child Discipline punishment guiding)

Discipline:
Emphasizes what a child should do
Is an ongoing process
Sets an example to follow
Leads to self control
Helps children change
Is positive
Accepts child's need to assert self
Fosters child's ability to think
Bolsters self-esteem
Shapes behavior

Punishment:
Emphasizes what a child should not do
Is a one time occurrence
Insists on obedience
Undermines independence
Is an adult release
Is negative
Makes children behave
Thinks for child
Defeats self-esteem
Condemns misbehavior

The following website provides an excellent, brief description of how you actually discipline children (vs. punish them): Discipline vs. Punishment

Quote:

From http://www.parentstoolshop.com/HTML/tips6.htm:
Discipline is different from punishment because it teaches children to learn from their mistakes rather than making them suffer for them. In fact, imposing suffering actually shifts the focus from the lesson that needs to be learned to who is in control. As a result, punishment focuses on the parent being responsible for controlling a child's behavior, rather than the child controlling his/her own behavior, which is the focus of discipline.

Disciplining children takes practice and patience, but is a wonderful skill for caregivers/parents to learn. Disciplining does *not* use physical punishment.

--Veg

Astronomer · 08-21-2009, 05:09 PM

"Discipline is different from punishment because it teaches children to learn from their mistakes rather than making them suffer for them. In fact, imposing suffering actually shifts the focus from the lesson that needs to be learned to who is in control. As a result, punishment focuses on the parent being responsible for controlling a child's behavior, rather than the child controlling his/her own behavior, which is the focus of discipline."

VEGANGELICA, this is exactly the kind of stuff I learn at uni about disciplining children. You're right in that physical punishment doesn't allow children to learn from their mistakes and reflect upon the decision they have made. Instead it just teaches them that if they do that particular thing, they will get hurt. It's far more effective trying to instill in children the notion of thinking about what they have done, reflecting on its impact on others, and learning from their mistakes.

Physical discipline to children just takes the focus away from reflecting and learning from their mistakes and instead just concentrates on pain and punishment. This doesn't reflect what the real world is like for adults at all.

Liljagare · 08-22-2009, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Physical discipline to children just takes the focus away from reflecting and learning from their mistakes and instead just concentrates on pain and punishment. This doesn't reflect what the real world is like for adults at all.

Isn't that what war is all about?

To put is simply, physical punishment shows children that hurting another physically is an acceptable method of resolving conflict. This can in turn aid in creating a violent society.

Anyways, anytime you physically/mentally hurt a child and it is considered acceptable by your area, that technically breaks Article 19 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child which also requires States to protect children from "all forms of physical or mental violence" while in the care of parents or others. Unless of course you are in the US or Somalia which has not ratified it yet.

Classof75 · 08-31-2009, 06:08 AM

Physical discipline is for animals. Children's behaviour can be changed using reason.
Unfortunately not all parents and adults are intelligent and methodical enough to
know how to deal with children without getting "physical".

Arya Stark · 08-31-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Classof75

Children's behaviour can be changed using reason.

So can the behaviour of an animal. In reality, nobody has to be physically disciplined. If you're going to say that children shouldn't be physically disciplined, you shouldn't go around commenting that it's fair to hit animals.

Classof75 · 08-31-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwwSugar

So can the behaviour of an animal. In reality, nobody has to be physically disciplined. If you're going to say that children shouldn't be physically disciplined, you shouldn't go around commenting that it's fair to hit animals.

Sorry, that is not what I meant. I don't think it is fair to hit anything. Animals have limited reasoning, but do not deserve abuse. I do not have the same regard for animals as I do human beings. Not a good idea (imo).

Arya Stark · 08-31-2009, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Classof75

Sorry, that is not what I meant. I don't think it is fair to hit anything. Animals have limited reasoning, but do not deserve abuse. I do not have the same regard for animals as I do human beings. Not a good idea(imo).

Thank you for clarifying.

What do you mean by the bold text, though?

crash_override · 09-01-2009, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Classof75

Sorry, that is not what I meant. I don't think it is fair to hit anything. Animals have limited reasoning, but do not deserve abuse. I do not have the same regard for animals as I do human beings. Not a good idea (imo).

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwwSugar

Thank you for clarifying.

What do you mean by the bold text, though?

Yeah, that doesn't make any ****ing sense.

View Poll Results: Physical punishment aganist children. Acceptable or Unacceptable?
Acceptable	50	56.82%
Unacceptable	38	43.18%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

08-20-2009, 06:55 PM	#331 (permalink)
Barnard17 My home? Discabled, Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 204	**** "physical discipline", when my child misbehaves I'm fetching the anthrax. Lets see them leave out the toys a second time ... As a standard I'm pretty much with JJJ and Vegangelica's stance on this. __________________ Vita brevis, Occasio praeceps

08-21-2009, 05:09 PM	#334 (permalink)
Astronomer we are stardust Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 2,894	"Discipline is different from punishment because it teaches children to learn from their mistakes rather than making them suffer for them. In fact, imposing suffering actually shifts the focus from the lesson that needs to be learned to who is in control. As a result, punishment focuses on the parent being responsible for controlling a child's behavior, rather than the child controlling his/her own behavior, which is the focus of discipline." VEGANGELICA, this is exactly the kind of stuff I learn at uni about disciplining children. You're right in that physical punishment doesn't allow children to learn from their mistakes and reflect upon the decision they have made. Instead it just teaches them that if they do that particular thing, they will get hurt. It's far more effective trying to instill in children the notion of thinking about what they have done, reflecting on its impact on others, and learning from their mistakes. Physical discipline to children just takes the focus away from reflecting and learning from their mistakes and instead just concentrates on pain and punishment. This doesn't reflect what the real world is like for adults at all. __________________

08-31-2009, 06:08 AM	#336 (permalink)
Classof75 Music Addict Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 127	Physical discipline is for animals. Children's behaviour can be changed using reason. Unfortunately not all parents and adults are intelligent and methodical enough to know how to deal with children without getting "physical".