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View Poll Results: Physical punishment aganist children. Acceptable or Unacceptable?
Acceptable 50 56.82%
Unacceptable 38 43.18%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-18-2009, 03:05 AM   #51 (permalink)
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I think one has to differentiate between physical discipline and physical abuse, and there are some factors that differentiate the two.
For one abuse is done out of anger and in a state of mind where the disciplining parent is not in control of their mind and subsequently their judgement. A parent physically lashing out at their child violently out of anger is unacceptable. No exceptions.
Hwever their are instances where physical discipline, emphasis on the word discipline is acceptable, especially in very early childhood situations (toddlers) where its not easy to verbally communicate crucial messages that a child needs to understand relevant to how their actions affect their own safety. That being said, I think its safe to say that at least 95% of the physical discipline that is issued by parents is really abuse. The question is Does the parent have self control?, and more importantly are the actions done with the immediate intention of benefiting the child and the parents genuine concern for the child's well being? Most of the time, unfortunately, the answer to that question is "no".
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Old 03-18-2009, 05:45 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by toretorden View Post
Ah, that explains why I have no morale, no respect and don't understand consequences for my actions. I should've been slapped more as a kid. Thanks for making sense of it for me.

Seriously, rarely have I ever felt so ignored in a thread. Is anyone reading posts here? Noone has responded to a single point I've made in this thread so far.



I read all of the posts in this thread and I couldnt care less what any study says, the simple fact of the matter is a spanking for something isnt going to do any damaged to their life and isnt going to harm a child mentaly provided the child is sat down and explained to what he/she did wrong and that he/she is loved and that this is only a result of a mistake, and then consoled once again after words, I believe that getting spanked for time to time will help mold a child into a better more respective person as they grow older I dont care what any goddamn study says! There is a fine line between beating/abuse and a spanking, you need to mold you child into a respectable human being when he/she gets older, that is your job, and I believe spanking is a nessesary tool. A parent should never instill in their child to be scared of him or her but to be careful what actions he/she takes in life, and that there ae consequences for bad/wrong behavior, simple as that. And taking a bowl of ice cream away after dinner or taking their playstation out of their room for a week isnt gonna do ****.
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Old 03-18-2009, 05:49 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Yeah, fuck science, you definitely know better. Incidentally, do you have kids?
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Old 03-18-2009, 05:54 AM   #54 (permalink)
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I'm betting he does.

Somewhere between SATHMO's post and Schredds lies the truth of managing a child.
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:00 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by adidasss View Post
Yeah, fuck science, you definitely know better. Incidentally, do you have kids?
No, I do not have kids adidasss but when I do I will do exactly as I stated in my posts and which is exactly how my parents raised me and I believe all of that stuff helped me turn into a respactable member os society, I was a bad kid and to be honest I got spanked all the time, but never once thought my parents didnt love me and now we still have a great relationship, I couldnt have asked more from them. I think they did a great job of raising me and my teo ciblings.
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:01 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Schredds View Post
No, I do not have kids adidasss
Wrong again. *slaps head
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:09 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Schredds View Post
I was a bad kid and to be honest I got spanked all the time, but never once thought my parents didnt love me and now we still have a great relationship, I couldnt have asked more from them. I think they did a great job of raising me and my teo ciblings.
There's an old saying...spare the rod and spoil the child.

My strategy with parenting is based on that maxim.
Although it's important not to be too harsh equally as it is not to spoil them by allowing the child to get away with blue murder.
Being a parent is a massive responsibility and ensuring the child grows up to be a well balanced human being, knowing the difference between right and wrong, is the biggest responsibility of all.

If the child knows exactly why he/she is being disciplined, then I see no harm with a swift smack on the hand.
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:11 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by right-track View Post
There's an old saying...spare the rod and spoil the child.

My strategy with parenting is based on that maxim.
Although it's important not to be too harsh equally as it is not to spoil them by allowing the child to get away with blue murder.
Being a parent is a massive responsibility and ensuring the child grows up to be a well balanced human being, knowing the difference between right and wrong, is the biggest responsibility of all.

If the child knows exactly why he/she is being disciplined, then I see no harm with a swift smack on the hand.
Amen to that, and I think more parents need to adopt this way of thinking.
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:27 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Schredds View Post
I read all of the posts in this thread and I couldnt care less what any study says
Well, I do. As I posted before, searching for an internal answer to this question is not really that good. We can't grasp the consequences for society by looking only at ourselves. In other words, we need studies on the effects of corporal to tell us what impact it has on society.

Is that hard to understand? No. You don't care? Fine, then let's just disagree then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schredds View Post
the simple fact of the matter is a spanking for something isnt going to do any damaged to their life and isnt going to harm a child mentaly provided the child is sat down and explained to what he/she did wrong and that he/she is loved and that this is only a result of a mistake, and then consoled once again after words, I believe that getting spanked for time to time will help mold a child into a better more respective person as they grow older I dont care what any goddamn study says!
You start here with an unsourced claim saying something's a fact. You should be able to back it up then. Furthermore, I haven't claimed that children are necessarily damaged by it. One of my points is that if corporal punishment is the norm, then there's gonna be more cases of abuse simply because more people hit their children and not everyone is gonna do that right if you will. Some people are gonna cross the line and it helps create abuse victims in our societies.

It is a reasonable assumption that some of those who cross the line and smack their kids too much probably wouldn't had they not been smacked around themselves when they were kids.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Schredds View Post
There is a fine line between beating/abuse and a spanking, you need to mold you child into a respectable human being when he/she gets older, that is your job, and I believe spanking is a nessesary tool. A parent should never instill in their child to be scared of him or her but to be careful what actions he/she takes in life, and that there ae consequences for bad/wrong behavior, simple as that. And taking a bowl of ice cream away after dinner or taking their playstation out of their room for a week isnt gonna do ****.
Here it is again, the same old regurgitated idea that violence is the only way to get conformity and respect in a child. To me, it comes across as incredibly naive, but alright .. Since you don't believe in empirical truths, I don't think there's much I can do to make you think otherwise. Let's just agree to disagree, then.

For those who are not quite as mentally stubborn :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Academic studies have established that under some circumstances, corporal punishment of children can increase short-term compliance with parental commands, although comparisons in the same studies with alternative punishments such as one-minute time-outs did not establish that corporal punishment was more effective.[33]

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), however, in an official policy statement[34] (reaffirmed in 2004) states that "Corporal punishment is of limited effectiveness and has potentially deleterious side effects." The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that parents be encouraged and assisted in the development of methods other than spanking for managing undesired behavior." In particular, the AAP believes that any corporal punishment methods other than open-hand spanking on the buttocks or extremities "are unacceptable" and "should never be used". The policy statement points out, summarizing several studies, that "The more children are spanked, the more anger they report as adults, the more likely they are to spank their own children, the more likely they are to approve of hitting a spouse, and the more marital conflict they experience as adults."[35] Spanking has been associated with higher rates of physical aggression, more substance abuse, and increased risk of crime and violence when used with older children and adolescents.[36]"

They state that corporal punishment is violent, unnecessary, may lower self-esteem, is likely to train children to use physical violence, and is liable to instill hostility and rage without reducing the undesired behavior.[37]

"The Psychosocial Paediatrics Committee of the Canadian Paediatric Society has carefully reviewed the available research in the controversial area of disciplinary spanking (7-15)... The research that is available supports the position that spanking and other forms of physical punishment are associated with negative child outcomes. The Canadian Paediatric Society, therefore, recommends that physicians strongly discourage disciplinary spanking and all other forms of physical punishment"[38]

The Australian Psychological Society holds that physical punishment of children should not be used as it has very limited capacity to deter unwanted behavior, does not teach alternative desirable behavior, often promotes further undesirable behaviors such as defiance and attachment to "delinquent" peer groups, encourages an acceptance of aggression and violence as acceptable responses to conflicts and problems[41]

"Research on corporal punishment has found it to be counterproductive and relatively ineffective, as well as dangerous and harmful to physical, psychological and social well being."[42]

Psychological research indicates that corporal punishment causes the deterioration of trust bonds between parents and children. Children subjected to corporal punishment may grow resentful, shy, insecure, or violent. Adults who report having been slapped or spanked by their parents in childhood have been found to experience elevated rates of anxiety disorder, alcohol abuse or dependence and externalizing problems as adults.[43] Some researchers believe that corporal punishment actually works against its objective (normally Obedience (human behavior)), since children will not voluntarily obey an adult they do not trust. A child who is physically punished may have to be punished more often than a child who is not. Researcher Elizabeth Gershoff, Ph. D., in a 2002 meta-analytic study that combined 60 years of research on corporal punishment, found that [44] Corporal punishment was linked with nine other negative outcomes, including increased rates of aggression, delinquency, mental health problems, problems in relationships with their parents, and likelihood of being physically abused.

Opponents claim that much child abuse begins with spanking: a parent accustomed to using corporal punishment may find it all too easy, when frustrated, to step over the line into physical abuse. One study found that 40% of 111 mothers were worried that they could possibly hurt their children.[45] It is argued that frustrated parents turn to spanking when attempting to discipline their child, and then get carried away (given the arguable continuum between spanking and hitting). This "continuum" argument also raises the question of whether a spank can be "too hard" and how (if at all) this can be defined in practical terms. This in turn leads to the question whether parents who spank their children "too hard" are crossing the line and beginning to abuse them.

Before 1997, although there were many studies linking spanking with higher levels of misbehaviour in children, people could argue that it was the misbehaviour that caused the spanking. However, since that time several studies have examined changes in behaviour over time and propose a link between corporal punishment and increasing relative levels of misbehaviour compared to similar children who were not corporally punished. Reasons for corporal punishment possibly causing increased misbehaviour in the long run may include: children imitating the corporally-punishing behaviour of their parents by hitting other people; acting out of resentment stemming from corporal punishment; reduced self-esteem; loss of opportunities to learn peaceful conflict resolution; punishing the parents for the acts of corporal punishment; and assertion of freedom and dignity by refusing to be controlled by corporal punishment.

The problem with the use of corporal punishment is that, if punishments are to maintain their efficacy, the amount of force required may have to be increased over successive punishments. This was observed by the American Academy of Pediatrics,[34] which stated that: "The only way to maintain the initial effect of spanking is to systematically increase the intensity with which it is delivered, which can quickly escalate into abuse". Additionally, the Academy noted that: "Parents who spank their children are more likely to use other unacceptable forms of corporal punishment."[46]

Another problem with corporal punishment, according to the skeptics, is that it polarizes the parent-child relationship, reducing the amount of spontaneous cooperation on the part of the child. The AAP policy statement says "...reliance on spanking as a discipline approach makes other discipline strategies less effective to use". Thus it has an addiction-like effect: the more one spanks, the more one feels a need to spank, possibly escalating until the situation is out of control.
-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment

This wall of text comes from Wikipedia. I've bolded some of the points that might be interesting. There was a also a bit too much text, so I cut some of it out, but there was nothing in there that supported corporal punishment.

Furthermore, this text is not something made up by random users because you will see there are numbers in the text and these means that the claims here come from and/or are supported by articles and the like found in this wikipedia article's reference list.

Look through article's reference list if you want to look up the sources to these claims.
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:32 AM   #60 (permalink)
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I understand you're trying to make a point (with some good sources too) but it's not in good taste or health to argue against personal experience.
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