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Old 04-07-2009, 06:26 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Fascism isn't much worse than gang monarchy (aka what you propose).

If you want to declare socialism as the best than fine. Don't even try to tell me that socialists respect individual rights.

Political discussions lack when I don't get to hear the philosophy behind the view so if you are going to respond with criticism then please post why you think private property rights should not be respected.
why do I think private property shouldn't be respected, that's an easy one...cause they don' respect others...I'm ok for some people being richer then others, but I believe they should pay higher taxes...and yes this happens in some countries, but what they do is take their money in a country where there are not as high taxes...anw I don't have a problem with rich people, but I think they should try to give back more, from either taxes or charity...and anw being a socialist isn't only about not believing in private possession, it's about believing in a certain political system...
as for the fascists I wouldn't like to go there cause I absolutely hate them...really hate them, and I believe they are the poison of society...but if you would like to discuss it let me know...
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:10 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Democracy (in the true sense) is just a synonym for gang rule. The general atmosphere of the words is different, but both words mean the same thing. The majority rules.

Since most socialists are pro-democracy in just about every way, I was attacking those socialists. He called a right-wing authoritarian a "fascist" when he (being in the green quadrant) is a "left-wing libertarian". The term "libertarian" is probably the worst political term there is because it emphasizes "liberty" above all else. The idea for people to do what they want to do is the goal of that movement. However, his leftist approach to it contradicts this because he believes that one should not be able to reap the benefits of his work. Libertarianism, when it isn't guided by a philosophy, has no meaning because either right or left wing libertarianism does not guarantee liberty in all areas. So I was beckoning him to explain his philosophical approach to libertarianism if he wanted to form a rebuttal because if he doesn't then one could just pick apart all the errors in general libertarianism.
I don't mean to get Croatian on you but i don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I asked what because I don't know where that comment came from.

Leftists want people to not reap the benefits of their work?
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:16 PM   #83 (permalink)
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The government is by people, for the people and the security thereof.
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what?
Its the preamble to the declaration of independance...you're foreign right?
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:51 PM   #84 (permalink)
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lol
Damn boy, you the most central cat I've seen so far (that means first page and posts after mine). I dig that.
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Old 04-08-2009, 09:03 AM   #85 (permalink)
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This is probably the most intellectually dishonest thing anyone has ever posted. Emphasizing personal rights while creating programs to protect those rights is not a contradiction. The reason taxes exist is to create mutually beneficial programs and secure our liberties. Trying to get rid of government involvement based on the idea that you don't want to lose 2% of what you make in government spending to allow you to have any liberties at all is outright stupid. We are the government, the government is us. The government is by people, for the people and the security thereof.
What is the right you are trying to protect by creating these programs? Where do rights come from? How do you determine what is a right and what isn't? Do you believe in a hierarchy of rights?

If the right to liberty is being protected then you can't use force to take away liberty because that is a contradiction. If that 2% is such a small amount then why wouldn't you just let the people pay that percent freely?

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Leftists want people to not reap the benefits of their work?
The price for work is artificial if there are taxes and such involved. You can't reap the benefits of your work when the price for it is artificial.
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Old 04-08-2009, 09:17 AM   #86 (permalink)
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The price for work is artificial if there are taxes and such involved. You can't reap the benefits of your work when the price for it is artificial.
So you're suggesting we go back to an agricultural economy and trade rather than have an international monetary system?

if so, why?
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Old 04-08-2009, 09:23 AM   #87 (permalink)
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So you're suggesting we go back to an agricultural economy and trade rather than have an international monetary system?

if so, why?
I am fine with paper money as long as it is backed up. What I am saying is that when someone needs work and they make a deal to pay you a wage, they also have to think about taxes and will have to lower the wage because of taxes. It isn't basic supply and demand creating the price.
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Old 04-08-2009, 10:09 AM   #88 (permalink)
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Why do they have to think about taxes? I'm not asking to be an ass, I've just never heard about this being a factor.

When we promote to salary, we think about the toll on our healthcare budget line, maybe retirement, but not taxes.
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Old 04-08-2009, 10:47 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Why do they have to think about taxes? I'm not asking to be an ass, I've just never heard about this being a factor.

When we promote to salary, we think about the toll on our healthcare budget line, maybe retirement, but not taxes.
You have to ask for more because you end up getting less than what you ask for. That is my point.
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Old 04-08-2009, 10:53 AM   #90 (permalink)
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You have to ask for more because you end up getting less than what you ask for. That is my point.
Oh from the "buyers" side? Hell no, jobs are out there for a cost. Its all relative when taxes scale. You don't what the cost of living in an area is, and you go from there.

Taxes should not be faulted because you don't keep all of your money. Taxes pay for so many functions of modern society that its a sham to say thats any sort of burden.

Vote people out who want taxes if you don't like them.
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