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Old 04-28-2009, 03:51 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tore View Post
I'll discuss it anytime, though I'll say for now that there are lots of problems with legalizing marijuana that makes it unlikely to gain support with politicians. That's why marijuana is not legalized today and why Obama has a chuckle when it's mentioned. Politicians should be aware of these problems because they have to think for society while regular users are usually not aware because their take on it is more self-centered.
Considering the kind of outrageous propaganda that used to be put out by the administrations in the 60's and 70's, I can't understand why you'd place so much credibility on a political agenda regarding marijuana laws unless you actually took that stance at face value.
Any functioning human with an eye for differentiating between societal ailments can easily tell you that marijuana, even in its current status, is by FAR the least of societies worries. And actually, the mere fact of its illegality raises the crime rate.
It goes on and on man.

I do want to discuss this with you completely, but I'm about to turn in for the night.

I look forward to chatting again brotha.
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Old 04-28-2009, 03:52 AM   #62 (permalink)
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I could honestly care less if it's legalized for recreational consumption, but as a renewable resource; That's another story.
You see, they don't need to legalize marijuana to use it as a renewable resource. Just as all other alternative resources that are readily available, it's here now and we have an abundance of it. A drastic change like this would involve a lot of rich guys to rewire the scheme or lose a lot of money.

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That's another story.
Meh I just saw that. I'll stop here.
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:03 AM   #63 (permalink)
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I'm from Norway where I wouldn't say we get exposed to a lot of anti-marijuana propaganda. People care generally little about it, but I'd still say it's relatively common knowledge that there are negative effects to it. I'm saying this because it looks like you believe that everything negative about it is being produced by some american propaganda machine and while you as americans should know much more about that than I do, I still don't agree that marijuana is harmless.

Legalizing marijuana might not lead to a decrease in marijuana related crimes. It could lead to an increase. For example it might become illegal to drive under the influence (in some cases, it most definetly should be), so those crimes should be higher. If marijuana was taxed which is the only feasible way to get something (money) from it, homegrowing for selling should be illegal because they feed the black market and so that would likely still be illegal .. and homegrowing and selling being so simple, that could lead to a lot of marijuana crimes.
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:26 AM   #64 (permalink)
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I'm aware of it's benefits for example as medicine (pain reliever) or the benefits of hemp (which is legal). Both of those uses should be (and are I guess?) legal.
Medicinally, it's not just a pain reliever. I use it for insomnia, relaxation, creativity (sometimes), cramps, and headaches. Yes, hemp is legal, but marijuana's terrible reputation has forever tainted hemp usage. I mentioned earlier in the thread that hemp seeds are a super food. They have every essential amino acid for you. This include SEVEN amino acids that are extremely rare or nonexistent in other food groups, not to mention other seeds, and your body can't make these amino acids on it's own. Sure, it's legal, but there are a certain group of ignorant people who will steer clear of this scene no matter how healthy it's proven to be. As for medicinal smoke, I think it's a great step so far, but if it's only available in SOME states. Does that mean grandpas gotta fly to Cali everytime he needs to re-up? Also, if you compare marijuana to the prescription pills tossed at us (a lot of whom are children) today, which is healthier? What are the statistics on kids overdosing on marijuana? What are the statistics of drunk-driving vs. high-driving? You know, fuck stats. It's a crock of shit anyway. Just take a look at your own community and tell me.

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edit :
About the self-centered thing, if something is detrimental to society - that means it will be detrimental to you as well, so you can extrapolate your thinking to include society also for selfish motives ..
(I guess your point is that we're all selfish)
Getting carried away, I know, but I've got to finish answering you!

Lastly, please don't tell me I am a detriment to the society because I get high when there are human traffickers, pedophiles and politicians still existent in our society. Yes, I get high, but don't clump me up in the nonproductive, lazy stoner category. Basically, what I'm tryin' to say is I get shit done, yo.

And yes, my point is that we are all selfish. I'm pretty sure I was clear on that. I'm actually kind of confused on what you said about it. Since when does being selfish include others? Also, do you ever think that it could be the anti-marijuana activists that are being selfish? I'm not asking for the government to sell dime bags to pregnant women and 5 year olds. I just want freedom to smoke a joint in my front yard if I desire. I want more access to alternative ways of consuming marijuana rather than just smoking it. I don't want to get arrested for a petty nickle bag and be forced to go to church (yes, this really happened). ****, I just wanna kick back, blaze and listen to some good tunes.

Alright, alright I'm done.
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:28 AM   #65 (permalink)
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When I was a teenager if I wanted to buy beer I either needed a fake ID or a friend who's over 21 to buy it for me. If I wanted to buy marijuana I made a phone call and it was delivered to my house.
There is no problem with weed being readily available due to it being illegal. Whoever wants it gets it fairly easily. Making it legal would actually decrease its availabilityin this country, because it's distribution would be regulated, and there's not a marijuana dealer/grower in this country who would want to go through the trouble to to even try to compete with the prices that the gov't would be able to sell it for even with a substantial tax. Does marijuana cause societal and health related problems? Sure, but its criminalization has done nothing to rectify the problems associated w/ its use, and legalization w/ Gov't regulation of distribution would actually cause those problem's to decrease.
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:29 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tore View Post
I'm from Norway where I wouldn't say we get exposed to a lot of anti-marijuana propaganda. People care generally little about it, but I'd still say it's relatively common knowledge that there are negative effects to it. I'm saying this because it looks like you believe that everything negative about it is being produced by some american propaganda machine and while you as americans should know much more about that than I do, I still don't agree that marijuana is harmless.

Legalizing marijuana might not lead to a decrease in marijuana related crimes. It could lead to an increase. For example it might become illegal to drive under the influence (in some cases, it most definetly should be), so those crimes should be higher. If marijuana was taxed which is the only feasible way to get something (money) from it, homegrowing for selling should be illegal because they feed the black market and so that would likely still be illegal .. and homegrowing and selling being so simple, that could lead to a lot of marijuana crimes.
There are negative effects to alcohol yet it's legal. Tobacco is about as bad. However marijuana could have some real medical benefits. I think it should be available for those people. As far as everyone else goes, is it not hard to get a hold of? Here I can pick it up from anyone really. Illegal or not.
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:34 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Vanillah, if I move to N.Z., I'm shacking up with you.

edit: Just to watch you pick up a bag "from anywhere". wink
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:36 AM   #68 (permalink)
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SATCHMO, the growers who come to your doorstep would also still most likely be criminals because they would be part of a black market. The thread is about the possibility of taxation and as such, in such a "legalized society" the war on drugs would simply shift and become a war on homegrowers.

Perhaps less interesting for you guys, there's also the problem of wether or not America should support foreign drug industries. Many of these deal in other shady businesses and are troublesome for many countries. Opening up a market to them is going to support those businesses. If America closes the market to them, they're still gonna be present on the black market.

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There are negative effects to alcohol yet it's legal. Tobacco is about as bad. However marijuana could have some real medical benefits. I think it should be available for those people. As far as everyone else goes, is it not hard to get a hold of? Here I can pick it up from anyone really. Illegal or not.
I've already replied to this I had two points. The first is so what about alcohol and tobacco? If we have some harmful things in society, does that by default mean we have to allow more? Secondly, alcohol and tobacco are easily taxed something marijuana is not and so the government makes a lot of money from them.
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:37 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Im not sure if many of you noticed, but many of the questions asked were answered in the link I provided. Not saying its valid information, but it is a good idea, hence where would the gov gain profit from its legalization and its availability, So check out that link, maybe it was just mistaken for an underlined paragraph.

Also, there are links at the bottom of that page which answer a million more questions here. Detrimental effects on health (Tore)
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:47 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Im not sure if many of you noticed, but many of the questions asked were answered in the link I provided. Not saying its valid information, but it is a good idea, hence where would the gov gain profit from its legalization and its availability, So check out that link, maybe it was just mistaken for an underlined paragraph.

Also, there are links at the bottom of that page which answer a million more questions here. Detrimental effects on health (Tore)
I've read it now and it seems the article agrees on several points I've made here and earlier.

Quote:
The study estimates that the average price of 0.5 grams (a unit) of marijuana sold for $8.60 on the street, while its cost of production was only $1.70. In a free market, a $6.90 profit for a unit of marijuana would not last for long. Entrepreneurs noticing the great profits to be made in the marijuana market would start their own grow operations, increasing the supply of marijuana on the street, which would cause the street price of the drug to fall to a level much closer to the cost of production. Of course, this doesn't happen because the product is illegal; the prospect of jail time deters many entrepreneurs and the occasional drug bust ensures that the supply stays relatively low. We can consider much of this $6.90 per unit of marijuana profit a risk-premium for participating in the underground economy. Unfortunately, this risk premium is making a lot of criminals, many of whom have ties to organized crime, very wealthy.
Summarized here is my point that in order for the government to make money off marijuana, they have to fight the homegrowers - here called entrepreneurs. I wrote the war on drugs would simply shift to a war on homegrowers and so you would still spend money on marijuana related crimes .. The article seems to agree.

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Legalization would eliminate this risk, causing the demand to rise. This is a mixed bag from a public policy standpoint: Increased marijuana use can have ill effects on the health of the population but the increased sales bring in more revenue for the government. However, if legalized, governments can control how much marijuana is consumed by increasing or decreasing the taxes on the product. There is a limit to this, however, as setting taxes too high will cause marijuana growers to sell on the black market to avoid excessive taxation.
Here the point is basically made again .. The article doesn't really seem really convinced either way, but it shows perhaps a tendency to believe that government might make money despite these problems. I don't agree with them because I can think of more problems than those that are pointed out in this article.

For example they do not mention foreign drug industries which should also be a concern.
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