adidasss

It's a stupid, barbaric tradition, if you're not a Jew or a Muslim there's really no reason for you to mutilate your child.

Oh yeah, for anyone interested, the graphic novel Maus which deals with the holocaust is one of the best things I've read this year...

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Son of JayJamJah

It's not stupid, it's not barbaric, there have been reasons for it cited. Is piercing your ears mutilation, how about getting caps or fillings for your teeth? how about having your appendix removed?

What's the difference?

and if it is stupid and barbaric mutilation, then why is it's okay for Jews and Muslims to behave that way?

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adidasss

The reasons you proffered can be achieved equally well with good hygiene. Yes, it is mutilation, only difference is the people who do it usually make a conscious decision to do it and nobody in their right mind would suggest doing it to a child. If it's not necessary, most definitely.

Because it's a part of their religious traditions, which include many more stupid things. Hopefully they'll all come to their senses in the near future.

Incidentally, I think circumcised penises aren't very attractive.

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The Unfan

Two of those are medical practices performed for strictly medical reasons. As for having ears pierced yes, I would consider forcing a child to get their ear pierced against their will a form of abuse.

Terrible Lizard

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Son of JayJamJah

I think both of you make very rational and solid arguments.

I would only contend that's there is no more logical evidence against it than there is for it.

Adidasss; When you disapprove but say it's okay for religious reasons, I think you imply it's not mutilation or abuse. Certainly no one would be okay with parents beating their children for religious reasons.

I can see why you both are against it, however with such a high percentage of doctors starting to recommend it and the school of thought suggesting a loss of sensation being almost proven a myth, I don't think it's fair to use such radical terms to define it.

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Hesher

If you'd ever been to a Bris I think you'd have trouble classifying it as abuse or mutilation. I think it's a wonderful ceremony that is rich with cultural tradition and doesn't really have any downsides. Honestly I haven't thought hard about it. Who cares? Especially if you haven't had one. I don't know. I have trouble imagining how it could be considered cruel, since it's pretty benign and the practitioner is licensed. At the same time this sounds silly coming out of my mouth. I think it's a non-issue.

Aside from circumcision... Judaism is pretty interesting as a religion. I went to Jewish elementary and high school, so I have a relatively in-depth background culturally as well as academically. I will say that I am a definite atheist, I don't believe in God anymore than I believe in little fairies or unicorns, but I think Judaism and most religions have important cultural value. I can find personal meaning in holidays without the "god element".

If anyone has any questions about a specific holiday or anything in the context of Judaism fire away... You can probably consider me an expert in terms of this forum.

TheCunningStunt

grammar*

Son of JayJamJah

"I ain't Jewish, I just don't dig on Swine"

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Hesher

I'm Jewish and I totally dig on swine.