An Ideal God

Freebase Dali · 07-04-2009, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boo boo

Suffering gives us the inspiration to overcome obstacles, create great works of art and come up with groundbreaking ideas.

If there was no pain or errors in the world, it would be a very boring and useless place.

In contradiction to what some people have said in reply to this....

If there were no suffering, there would be nothing to overcome. Thus, struggle would be obsolete.
If a happy life is defined by the process of overcoming adversity, then a good life itself is made relevant by adversity itself, which seems contradictory to me.

If we had a choice, would we choose adversity with the option of overcoming it...
Or unadulterated non-conflict?

I guess that's where you begin separating human values.
I just don't think it takes a negative to equal a positive. That's all.

Kamikazi Kat · 07-04-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATCHMO

The whole entire point of religion when viewed from the proper perspective is for humans to see just how much control they do have over their own lives. If all our actions and attitudes were completely inconsequential then there wouldn't be much point to following any set of "rules". Getting in touch with God is akin to getting in touch with the intuitive aspect of our own consciousness that understands the significance of our own life and how our subsequent actions and attitudes affect us. We've grown too attached to the concept of god as a discrete deity who is constantly making a list, checking it twice and is respectively smiting/blessing who he finds to be naughty or nice. There is karmic law, but karmic law is a hell of a lot more scientifically grounded than one may think. Learning to work within that, and other laws that could be filed under spiritual physics does hold some benefit toward achieving happiness and balance within a lifetime.

Exactly. Looking at what most people view as "God," re-enforce why what most people worship is not an all-powerful being, but a man-made icon. Why would God be in the basic sense, an all-powerful, judgemental male with powers to govern the universe? God could exist, or not, I really think it depends on the individual. People always ask the question "Does God exist?" Well, what is your definition of God? Is he a giant white male that gave you that salary raise? Or is God something that is defined by the individual. You could be God, I could be God, the universe could be God, the forces that govern the universe could be God. At a certain point, I just stopped caring. Watch, somebody is going to mathematically prove that in the exact cent of the universe in the 1002.32th purple eagle dimension, a large cube-like object exist that emits a high-pitched ringing sound and is every single color at the same time except white and spews out everything that has existed, is existing and will exist out of its space-pores. Then somebody is going to call this space-cube thing "God," and everybody is going to be worshiping the space cube.

SATCHMO · 07-04-2009, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamikazi Kat

Exactly. Looking at what most people view as "God," re-enforce why what most people worship is not an all-powerful being, but a man-made icon. Why would God be in the basic sense, an all-powerful, judgemental male with powers to govern the universe? God could exist, or not, I really think it depends on the individual. People always ask the question "Does God exist?" Well, what is your definition of God? Is he a giant white male that gave you that salary raise? Or is God something that is defined by the individual. You could be God, I could be God, the universe could be God, the forces that govern the universe could be God. At a certain point, I just stopped caring. Watch, somebody is going to mathematically prove that in the exact cent of the universe in the 1002.32th purple eagle dimension, a large cube-like object exist that emits a high-pitched ringing sound and is every single color at the same time except white and spews out everything that has existed, is existing and will exist out of its space-pores. Then somebody is going to call this space-cube thing "God," and everybody is going to be worshiping the space cube.

Kinda' like makes you a prophet doesn't it? People will worship you! I guess i don't see cube worship going over too well.

Kamikazi Kat · 07-04-2009, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATCHMO

Kinda' like makes you a prophet doesn't it? People will worship you! I guess i don't see cube worship going over too well.

Well, it would be better then the current human-like gods that have views on everything. I mean, imagine a cube worshipper.
"So you worship a space cube?"
"Yeah!"
"So, what does that mean?"
"Well, I take a few minutes each day to worship the space cube each morning, then I continue my life no differently then I normally would. I also thank the space cube every time something good happens to me."

The only time it would become a dangerous or harmful belief is if somebody decided that the space cube has views, opinions, desires, ect. Which would of course probably happen, somebody is going to speak for the space cube and make everybody think that eating makes the space cube shed acidic tears of sorrow which slowly begins to melt the universe.

SATCHMO · 07-04-2009, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamikazi Kat

Well, it would be better then the current human-like gods that have views on everything. I mean, imagine a cube worshipper.
"So you worship a space cube?"
"Yeah!"
"So, what does that mean?"
"Well, I take a few minutes each day to worship the space cube each morning, then I continue my life no differently then I normally would. I also thank the space cube every time something good happens to me."

The only time it would become a dangerous or harmful belief is if somebody decided that the space cube has views, opinions, desires, ect. Which would of course probably happen, somebody is going to speak for the space cube and make everybody think that eating makes the space cube shed acidic tears of sorrow which slowly begins to melt the universe.

Too much time alone in the sandbox?

Inuzuka Skysword · 07-05-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

If God became our slave, why isn't he a cow, or an insect, and why would we care?

I'm just not seeing your point in why we would create a fantasy world where we were the masters. Either buy a subscription for an MMO or get into bondage.

You are taking my comment literally. I am basically saying why can't the idea of god be used and distorted in order to actually better our lives. I am not for seeing "spiritual truth" or any of that bull****. I am just saying if there is a practical reason to believe in God, how can we retain the benefit without giving up the freedom and such we have with the beliefs of atheism?

cardboard adolescent · 07-05-2009, 05:23 PM

I would strongly recommend reading Kant, since he acknowledges that pure reason cannot prove the existence of God, but that through hope we can assume his existence and allow it to guide us in our quest for moral perfection. I'm one of those people who thinks Kant is half brilliant half asinine, and that Hegel brings his ideas to their true conclusion. Still, there are plenty of contemporary Kantians, and I think Kant's political ideas are pretty solid and ridiculously ahead of their time.

TheBig3 · 07-05-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword

You are taking my comment literally. I am basically saying why can't the idea of god be used and distorted in order to actually better our lives. I am not for seeing "spiritual truth" or any of that bull****. I am just saying if there is a practical reason to believe in God, how can we retain the benefit without giving up the freedom and such we have with the beliefs of atheism?

You're looking to distort something you created to make it better for you?

I'm not trying to be an ass, but what are you suggesting here?

Inuzuka Skysword · 07-05-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

You're looking to distort something you created to make it better for you?

I'm not trying to be an ass, but what are you suggesting here?

I am not really suggesting anything. Just asking a question. I am asking whether believing in god has any positives. If they are truly positives that can better our existence and cannot be found anywhere else, then how can we implement those into a made-up religion in order to benefit us.

Quote:

I would strongly recommend reading Kant, since he acknowledges that pure reason cannot prove the existence of God, but that through hope we can assume his existence and allow it to guide us in our quest for moral perfection. I'm one of those people who thinks Kant is half brilliant half asinine, and that Hegel brings his ideas to their true conclusion. Still, there are plenty of contemporary Kantians, and I think Kant's political ideas are pretty solid and ridiculously ahead of their time.

Any specific books? I have been meaning to read Critique of Pure Reason, but I would instantly push that aside if he has better.

cardboard adolescent · 07-05-2009, 06:18 PM

Critique of Pure Reason is a pretty heavy undertaking, I might suggest Religion Within the Bounds of Bare Reason, Prolegomena to any Future Metaphysics and Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals as good, short introductions, and then you can always delve into the critiques if you really feel the need to go deeper.

07-05-2009, 05:23 PM	#47 (permalink)
cardboard adolescent ;) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Posts: 3,503	I would strongly recommend reading Kant, since he acknowledges that pure reason cannot prove the existence of God, but that through hope we can assume his existence and allow it to guide us in our quest for moral perfection. I'm one of those people who thinks Kant is half brilliant half asinine, and that Hegel brings his ideas to their true conclusion. Still, there are plenty of contemporary Kantians, and I think Kant's political ideas are pretty solid and ridiculously ahead of their time.

07-05-2009, 06:18 PM	#50 (permalink)
cardboard adolescent ;) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Posts: 3,503	Critique of Pure Reason is a pretty heavy undertaking, I might suggest Religion Within the Bounds of Bare Reason, Prolegomena to any Future Metaphysics and Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals as good, short introductions, and then you can always delve into the critiques if you really feel the need to go deeper.