Radical Feminism *WARNING* There is a pic of Beth Ditto involved

Terrible Lizard · 08-21-2009, 07:43 PM

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Originally Posted by Neapolitan

Dear Miss Misandry,

Do you really want to buy all the males on this site?

Astronomer · 08-21-2009, 07:44 PM

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Originally Posted by Neapolitan

Dear Miss Misandry,

Do you really want to buy all the males on this site?

rofl, my bad, typos are funny. Fixed

Wayfarer · 08-21-2009, 10:40 PM

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Originally Posted by Neapolitan

I think they are well passed extremist's veiw point on anything.

Well, Christianity is an extremist ideology.

boo boo · 08-22-2009, 01:07 AM

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Nyesus, just because some friend of your mommy's is now, thanks to the feminist movement, able to earn over $60,000 a year doesn't necessarily mean that women throughout the "third world" are being treated as equals. To claim that there's "nothing left for feminist activists to do" is just bloody ridiculous and almost cheerfully ignorant.

I've already made it clear that I'm only talking about western society here.

I'm not an idiot, I know women in many areas of the world are treated like crap. What I'm saying is, that in American culture it's become nothing more than a liability for both men and women. I applaud feminists who are making a difference around the world or at least try to. But there's a lot of so called feminists in this country, who instead of actually concerning themselves with real problems, choose to bitch about Playboy and Disney movies instead.

And thus instead of contributing to real feminist causes they just make a mockery out of it.

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Forgive me for traipsing a bit off-topic here, but had you actually read the Bible (which, in light of this quote of yours, I'm left to assume that you haven't), you'd be well-aware that the Westboro Baptist Church absolutely represents the ideals of "true" Christians. "Fundamentalist", or "literalist" Christianity is, in effect, the only "true" Christianity, when one considers that, if left open to personal interpretation, the Bible can be construed as an authorization of just about anything, thus rendering "Christianity" meaningless. The simple act of reading the Bible and having your perspective on life mildly reformed makes you about as much a "Christian" as the simple act of reading Nineteen Eighty-Four and having my perspective on life mildly reformed makes me an Orwellist.

Were she attractive (in your eyes), but behaved in precisely the same manner, would you be doing this much complaining about it? Also, how exactly is she "cramming it down people's fucking throats"? By appearing on magazine covers? By appearing on stage in skimpy outfits? She's not "cramming" her apparent unattractiveness down our throats any more than a myriad of blonde Hollywood actresses are shoving their apparent attractiveness down our throats. It appears, to me, at least, that you do, in fact, hate her because she's "ugly".

And all of this after you spend a night ripping on Christopher Hitchens for being a supposed "sexist jerk".

First, I'm not gonna let this turn into another debate about Christianity.

Second, yeah, that's why I don't like Beth Ditto. As she's clearly a wonderful person.

If I rip on someone for being ugly it's somebody I clearly have a personal dislike of to begin with. Isn't that the case for most people? Why yes, it is.

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Originally Posted by anticipation

Not really, if you think about it there are people who fit those stereotypes, and those people are usually the center of the argument and recieve the most discrimination. I just said that men who exhibit those qualities are naturally that way, not that everyone is like that.

But women of course can never be naturally feminine, it's only because we tell them to be, otherwise they'd all look like KD Lang.

boo boo · 08-22-2009, 01:20 AM

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Originally Posted by anticipation

i'm against feminism because it asserts that men and women should be treated to men, when they are clearly not. I know that sounds horrible, but hear me out. When feminists get all upset that men are instantly assigned to tasks or given positions of power over women and assume it's "just because they are men". I've got news for you, who gives a ****? Men and women are instinctually more apt at certain tasks than others, be it nurturing children for women, or physical dominance and a sense of leadership in men. There will never, and I mean never be a world where men and women perform the same social functions at equal levels, so why hope for it? It makes absolutley no sense. Feminists demonize competitve attitude and male pride to no end, but have men ever attacked the natural characteristics of grace and sensitivity in women? Why hate something you are powerless to change? All I'm saying is that men and women are not, and will never be, total equals, and I don't see anything wrong with that.

Exactly.

We should be proud of our distinctions instead of trying to get rid of them.

Astronomer · 08-22-2009, 01:31 AM

^ Yeah but there is a difference between male/female distinctions and male/female discrimination. Like I said earlier, I agree with you about radical feminists who, in their plight, are actually DESTROYING female choice (e.g. the choice that a women might make to WANT to be a housewife or whatever), but feminism, true feminism, still has a place and importance in society. I have been discriminated many times in my life purely because I am a woman. See my post earlier.

boo boo · 08-22-2009, 01:50 AM

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Originally Posted by Lateralus

I agree with most of your argument boobs in that modern radical feminism is bullshit - it's going backwards and just getting ridiculous. Decades ago, feminists fought for the freedom of women to wear what they like and do what they like. They wanted to be able to wear what they liked in public and not be shunned for it. But now, if a woman chooses to wear something in public like a mini-skirt, all these radical feminists will accuse her of forfeiting her rights as a woman or some shit.

So I do agree with you in that radical feminism is a bit ridiculous. To me, the whole point of feminism is that women should have a choice to do what they want. If they choose to wear lipstick and girly clothing than that's fine! If they choose to stay at home and be a housewife then great. Radical feminists who go against all of these things are just taking away that choice for women and it seems silly to me.

Wow, so far the female posters here have been more understanding of my point of view than the guys. And I think I can understand why because like I said, these idiots are only oppressing women further.

It's easy for someone to read what I'm saying and cry sexism, just like when people cry racism if you have anything bad to say about Afrocentrism or affirmative action.

Just because you disagree with a certain ideal associated with a certain race or gender doesn't make you a freaking bigot. We're in such a topsy turvy world now that a lot of people who throw the word "bigotry" around are about as prejudiced as you can possibly get.

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Secondly, I just want to say that I do consider myself a feminist and I am involved in a lot of feminist/ women rights groups at uni. And I can say that I rarely, rarely come across people as extreme as you have described.

I also want to say that feminism DOES still hold a large significance in society. Females still do not have the same rights as men, written and unwritten.

Well, I'm talking about America specifically (and yes I know it's not the center of the world) and I don't really know anything about women's rights in your country but if you still have a way to go, then yes feminism still serves a great purpose in your country.

I'm not talking about feminism around the world or even every feminist in America, I'm talking only about a specific unhealthy attitude that unfortunately everyone associates with radical feminism today. Now I don't think men and women are completely equal in my country, but I agree with Ant that they can never be truly equal in all aspects, we're biologically different, we can't be truly the same. Though of course we should all have as many equal rights as possible.

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One example I can think of this is in the workplace. Research has demonstrated that a man will most likely be a hired for a job over a woman because the woman will be seen as a 'less reliable' worker because she may get pregnant and then want maternity leave. When I got pregnant I was dismissed from my job completely. They told me it was because the business was quietening down and they had no choice but to let go of a lot of workers, but it just seemed too coincidental that I was the ONLY ONE who was dismissed and it was within a week of them finding out that I was pregnant. I was then unable to get another job after that because noone would hire me.

Sexual harassment is also still a huge problem, inside the workplace and outside. A lot of men feel that they can say derogatory/ sexual things to women or treat them as sex objects and that this is fine because they are a women; an attitude that needs to be changed. Rape and abuse towards women is also a huge issue in society - most people who are raped or sexually assaulted are women. Again, this comes down to a fucked-up attitude that a lot of people hold about women that needs to be changed.

Well, I think a big problem here is that these kinda issues are beyond the control of feminist activists, bigotry is a part of human nature that will never go away, I don't think.

And I have to admit, I don't think affirmative action is the way to solve that problem, because I think it only leads to reverse discriminaiton.

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I went to get a quote to get my car fixed the other day, and the mechanic I spoke to was an incredible chauvinist and treated me like I was some bimbo who knew nothing about cars. The quote he gave me to fix my car was $4,100. I asked my boyfriend to go up there and get a quote for the same thing on my car. He saw the same guy, requested the same things, on my car, and came back with a quote for $3,200.

Wow, talk about a douchebag. But there will always be douchebags in this world.

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This kind of **** happens all the time; women still do not have the same rights and advantages as men do.

And I'm not at all knocking people who believe in your cause and fighting for it.

Rather the opposite, it's the radicals who are making a shaggy dog joke out of it.

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THAT BEING SAID, I completely agree with those who have said that radical feminism is stupid. Because it is. Radical feminists are hypocritical because in their plight to gain women more rights they're actually taking away a lot of choices for women. They are not fighting for equal rights between the sexes (which is what feminism should be about) but instead a quite man-hating and hypocritical.

They hate men but they want to be men.

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But I do believe that feminism, true feminism, still plays a major role in society. I'm probably going to get flamed for this by all the males on this site but I just want to say that you have no idea what it's like waking up in the morning and having to fight for your rights as a person every day, and what it's like being fired from a job or not being hired for a job just because you were born with a vagina and ovaries.

Heh, I'm sure a lot of people know what it's like. Sexism isn't the only form of discrimination in the world, or even racism, classism, ageism, homophobia, xenophobia or religious prejudice. It's all different kinds of ridiculous things.

Terrible Lizard · 08-22-2009, 01:58 AM

boo boo · 08-22-2009, 01:59 AM

Your sense of humor......

I don't like it.

Astronomer · 08-22-2009, 02:20 AM

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Originally Posted by boo boo

Now I don't think men and women are completely equal in my country, but I agree with Ant that they can never be truly equal in all aspects, we're biologically different, we can't be truly the same. Though of course we should all have as many equal rights as possible.

Well I agree with this completely. Of course men and women can't be absolutely identical in the ways we live our lives because we are biologically different. We will never truly be equal in all aspects, because like you said, we can't truly be the same. And this doesn't disadvantage women, or men, it's just the fact that we are biologically different. But we should strive to have as many equal rights as we can.

I know biology is a part of human nature that will never go away, but it's not my fault that an accidental pregnancy would affect me in a hugely negative way and not affect the father in the same way. Getting fired from a job because of your biological makeup just isn't fair and I will never believe that it is.

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Originally Posted by boo boo

Heh, I'm sure a lot of people know what it's like. Sexism isn't the only form of discrimination in the world, or even racism, classism, ageism, homophobia, xenophobia or religious prejudice. It's all different kinds of ridiculous things.

Exactly, this is 100% true. Feminism isn't the only form of discrimination in the world and I think a lot of feminists fail to see this. Women aren't the only ones who get discriminated against. Men are discriminated against in many cases too. So are other people who may belong to a particular race, or religion, or culture, or sexual orientation.

All in all, I agree with you entirely that radical feminism is ridiculous. Feminism should fight for equal rights as much as it is possible. Of course there are biological difference between men & women; we will never be identical, we are different in our ways, and that is fine. But as I said earlier... things like getting fired from your job just because of biology and nature, something you cannot control, is unfair. It's things like this that feminism should be aiming to address. Not whether women should wear lipstick or shave their armpits or go against their natural appearance and look like men... I consider myself 'feminist' in a way but I don't believe in that kind of nonsense at all.

Like I said, being a woman, I can truly say that all this radical feminism stuff actually diminishes the choices women have. Because if I choose to look feminine, or if I choose to be a mother and stay and home and raise children, I would be criticized by them despite it being my own choice! It's just... stupid.

08-22-2009, 01:31 AM	#36 (permalink)
Astronomer we are stardust Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 2,894	^ Yeah but there is a difference between male/female distinctions and male/female discrimination. Like I said earlier, I agree with you about radical feminists who, in their plight, are actually DESTROYING female choice (e.g. the choice that a women might make to WANT to be a housewife or whatever), but feminism, true feminism, still has a place and importance in society. I have been discriminated many times in my life purely because I am a woman. See my post earlier. __________________

08-22-2009, 01:58 AM	#38 (permalink)
Terrible Lizard **ER OF HOLES Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Butt**, Nebraska Posts: 1,211	__________________ “YOU ARE SCUM SLUT.” -John Martyn