Are you religious?

**Janszoon** · 02-17-2016, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Charlie

To practice in such a way that a direct experience is had. At that point the belief drops away and it becomes something you taste. Something you know. It trascends language too. Which is why it can only ever be a personal thing.

I should point out I'm talking about my experience with meditation, but scientific studies suggest that the human brain, whether in religious prayer or meditation, enters the same state and are reshaped in similar ways by both.

So some fundamentalist murdering someone because their religion is something they can taste is drinking the same soup as you when you meditate?

Mr. Charlie · 02-17-2016, 02:39 PM

Meditate in such a way so that you become aware that what you really are is the awareness itself - not the thinking mind, or have a religious experience, or do enough drugs so that you have a mystical experience, or experience Oneness in some form, then the soup and spoon analogy might, might!, make sense.

And that's the trouble with these conversations, there really is no substitute for the experience. What's being described cannot be described, and so it comes across as flowery or lofty and annoying and almost always end up with mocking.

Sometimes I wonder if it's the ego defending itself because all this stuff is it's greatest threat. Haha. But whatever. It's all good.

grindy · 02-17-2016, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Charlie

Meditate in such a way so that you become aware that what you really are is the awareness itself - not the thinking mind, or have a religious experience, or do enough drugs so that you have a mystical experience, or experience Oneness in some form, then the soup and spoon analogy might, might!, make sense.

And that's the trouble with these conversations, there really is no substitute for the experience. What's being described cannot be described, and so it comes across as flowery or lofty and annoying and almost always end up with mocking.

Sometimes I wonder if it's the ego defending itself because all this stuff is it's greatest threat. Haha. But whatever. It's all good.

I really dig the "zen stuff", but religion is as far away from it as a soda commercial. Some religious practices can induce trance, that's basically it.
Religion loves to plaster god over everything exactly because of the fear of seeing the nothingness.

**Janszoon** · 02-17-2016, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Charlie

Meditate in such a way so that you become aware that what you really are is the awareness itself - not the thinking mind, or have a religious experience, or do enough drugs so that you have a mystical experience, or experience Oneness in some form, then the soup and spoon analogy might, might!, make sense.

And that's the trouble with these conversations, there really is no substitute for the experience. What's being described cannot be described, and so it comes across as flowery or lofty and annoying and almost always end up with mocking.

Sometimes I wonder if it's the ego defending itself because all this stuff is it's greatest threat. Haha. But whatever. It's all good.

Don't worry about how it comes across, just try and focus on answering the question. Is a person committing murder in an act of religious fervor drinking the same soup as you?

Mr. Charlie · 02-17-2016, 03:04 PM

What kind of a question is that?

**Janszoon** · 02-17-2016, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Charlie

What kind of a question is that?

It's the kind of question that comes up when someone claims that all people "truly" practicing religion are drinking the same soup with different spoons.

Mr. Charlie · 02-17-2016, 03:38 PM

Haha. Yeah. I did bring it on myself. But reading your question aloud is funny. It's the kinda thing someone sometimes says when they're tripping. Two thoughts entangled in one sentence. But yeah, it wasn't a good analogy. I'm trying to think of others now, like the experience is a place and religions are vehicles that take you there, but that's likely to lead to confusion too. Oh well, I know what I mean, even if nobody else does.

**Janszoon** · 02-17-2016, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Charlie

Haha. Yeah. I did bring it on myself. But reading your question aloud is funny. It's the kinda thing someone sometimes says when they're tripping. Two thoughts entangled in one sentence. But yeah, it wasn't a good analogy. I'm trying to think of others now, like the experience is a place and religions are vehicles that take you there, but that's likely to lead to confusion too. Oh well, I know what I mean, even if nobody else does.

I don't think issue was the analogy.

Stephen · 02-17-2016, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

What does it mean to practice a religion "truly"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

So some fundamentalist murdering someone because their religion is something they can taste is drinking the same soup as you when you meditate?

Well perhaps the distinction there is practising religion introspectively as in seeing where you might improve or understand your own existence and practising religion proscriptively as a means to judge and control the behaviour of others. The latter form is obviously a lot more obnoxious.

Paul Smeenus · 02-17-2016, 06:30 PM

Some more of my favorites on YouTube:

King Crocoduck

This guy is as thorough as they come. He can get profoundly technical and it can be hard to follow, but he's an incredible poster, it's worth occasionally getting somewhat lost, it'll all come together.

Baud2Bits

I love this guy. AronRa said Baud2Bits was one of the only YouTubers to which he (Aron) is subscribed.

Logicked

He's much more inclined to be looking for gags, but for the most part I enjoy his shtick. I love what he did to Kent Hovind (more on KH when I discuss those whom I vigorously oppose), he's done an entire KH series which I enjoyed tremendously

Hello, My Name is Kent Hovind

Speaking of looking to getting a few good yucks:

Creationist Cat

However, NOT a fan of (the admittedly lovely) Jaclyn Glenn

View Poll Results: What religion do you follow?
Christianity	38	20.32%
Buddhism	3	1.60%
Hinduism	1	0.53%
Islam	2	1.07%
Judaism	4	2.14%
Wiccanism	1	0.53%
Other established religion (feel free to post about it)	6	3.21%
Self-defined	25	13.37%
Don't follow any religion & don't believe in deities (atheist)	68	36.36%
Not Sure, undecided, don't know or don't care	39	20.86%
Sikhism	0	0%
Voters: 187. You may not vote on this poll

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02-17-2016, 02:39 PM	#552 (permalink)
Mr. Charlie Shoo Thoughts Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: These Mountains Posts: 2,308	Meditate in such a way so that you become aware that what you really are is the awareness itself - not the thinking mind, or have a religious experience, or do enough drugs so that you have a mystical experience, or experience Oneness in some form, then the soup and spoon analogy might, might!, make sense. And that's the trouble with these conversations, there really is no substitute for the experience. What's being described cannot be described, and so it comes across as flowery or lofty and annoying and almost always end up with mocking. Sometimes I wonder if it's the ego defending itself because all this stuff is it's greatest threat. Haha. But whatever. It's all good.

02-17-2016, 03:04 PM	#555 (permalink)
Mr. Charlie Shoo Thoughts Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: These Mountains Posts: 2,308	What kind of a question is that?

02-17-2016, 03:38 PM	#557 (permalink)
Mr. Charlie Shoo Thoughts Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: These Mountains Posts: 2,308	Haha. Yeah. I did bring it on myself. But reading your question aloud is funny. It's the kinda thing someone sometimes says when they're tripping. Two thoughts entangled in one sentence. But yeah, it wasn't a good analogy. I'm trying to think of others now, like the experience is a place and religions are vehicles that take you there, but that's likely to lead to confusion too. Oh well, I know what I mean, even if nobody else does.