bungalow

first of all, i never claimed this bill did not have any clauses related to employers. i was referring directly to crash_override's stance which seems to favor the criminal treatment, arrest and deportation of illegal immigrants. i am saying that crash's anger should be directed towards these corporations and not individuals who are being exploited. crash's post displays a lot of misplaced contempt for these people.

and secondly, you are sadly mistaken if you believe this law is going to step up enforcement on corporations that routinely hire illegal immigrants. the new enforcement capabilities (supposedly) granted by this law are designed to crack down on the illegal immigrants themselves, everyone knows this. american multinationals are far too powerful to be hindered by a state law such as this one, and if it actually posed any threat to the hiring practices of these corporations it wouldn't have stood a chance at becoming law. at the most these provisions in the law will have the effect of increased enforcement on small and local businesses that hire illegal immigrants, sidestepping the larger problem.

but you are a troll so i'm not sure why i even bother responding to you.

crash_override

You are overlooking the criminal actions of these individuals and pointing the finger at corporations, seemingly, because that's easier for you to have contempt for a large corporation than an individual. But you cannot overlook the crime of one in lieu of the crime of another. The point is that Arizona is not able to stifle the policies of these corporations with their own state laws, therefore they are taking the best possible course of action to eradicate this growing epidemic of crime in their state.

On the other hand, I do agree with you in the fact that there needs to be stricter punishment of companies that do knowingly hire and support illegal immigrants. But seeing the current federal/corporate relationship, I don't see a bill being passed any time soon.

My thoughts on you exactly.

__________________
My MB music journal

someonecompletelyrandom

I don't think you can fairly call illegal immigrants "criminals". Sure they are in this country illegally, but perhaps this goes beyond the technicalities of the law. When viewed from a moral perspective, at least in my opinion, you can't blame them for wanting to live here. And we've made it very difficult for people to immigrate here legally. You need money.

Bolded is the reasons I disagree with this law. As I think it was bungalow who brought out, the terms of this law are somewhat ambiguous... but that also opens it to interpretation which can very easily lead to the profiling and racism people have been protesting. It's not just my opinion. You agree too that the law should be changed. I think most reasonable people will agree that, no matter what your view on illegal immigrants and how they should be treated is, policing based on what is essentially somebody's name or looks is wrong - and that's what this law might end up initiating. There are a lot of civil rights activists who oppose the law, and even President Obama is very upset about it being signed.

But about your other point...

The first bolded point: I'm not saying the police need the cooperation and respect of the community they protect. I'm saying it makes things far easier on them and they'll have a greater rate of success. This means less violence, less people having to die or be injured for no reason. Any police officer will tell you this. Police chiefs across the country are upset about this bill. Not to mention it'll be a drain on police resources to turn them all into immigration officers.

The second bolded point: Well of course they wont! But police officers traditionally aren't supposed to deport people. That's the whole point of contention.

crash_override

Just because you feel compassion for a criminal doesn't make them innocent. They call them "Illegal" immigrants for a reason. This is nothing short of a crime wave. A crime wave that starts with the illegal entrance of the U.S., and often continues into our streets and neighborhoods. Does it not scare you that you have people walking in your streets that do not exist in this country on paper? These people are ghosts, ghosts who can wander about and commit crime without proper punishment.

It seems to me that too many people are making a decision on this issue using their hearts, rather than their heads.

__________________
My MB music journal

someonecompletelyrandom

Then let's have a major crack down on the places that hire illegal workers. We'll have amnesty day. Give them all citizenship. They'll have equal work opportunities. Make them pay taxes. Thus forever changing the workforce in this country and boosting the economy at the same time. Then let's get down there and actually guard the border.

Oh look, they ain't "breaking the law" anymore.

But that plan is waaay to optimistic to work, I'm sure

bungalow

i'm honored to be posting with lou dobbs

crash_override

The entire idea of amnesty only makes the situation worse. By letting one criminal off the hook, you are opening the door for more crime. That makes about as much since as a get out of federal maximum security prison free day.

I've already stated that I support the punishment of people/companies that hire illegal workers, but do not support amnesty in any way.

How is making them pay taxes on their already rock bottom wages going to improve the economy when you're putting qualified and well paid workers out of work and, subsequently, on unemployment at the same time?

That plan is far too much of a fairy tale to work.

__________________
My MB music journal

someonecompletelyrandom

i'm honored to be posting with lou dobbs [2]

It would even the workforce. They wouldn't work for dirt anymore and would have the same opportunities as everyone else because they can get more high profile or high paying jobs being citizens. Why would they be putting qualified people out of work? More likely they'd keep the same kind of jobs they had before, but would work on a legal wage.

crash_override

I should probably go brush up on my spanish...

__________________
My MB music journal

crash_override

And why can't they do that as legal citizens? Is it so much to ask someone to go through a naturalization process? Why do we have to change our policies to conform to them? They have that opportunity under our current policy.

__________________
My MB music journal