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Old 09-22-2011, 02:06 PM   #831 (permalink)
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If homosexuality is not a 'choice' then is it genetic?
Is pedophilia a choice or is it genetic?
Are they both psychological, or neither?
These are apples and oranges. I'll refine this:

Your sexual preference is often times presented as a binary issue. You either are homosexual or your heterosexual. This comes about only in a Semitic society because it defines who one can "lay" with.

Personally I think the motive behind statements like that arise from anti-Roman Imperial sentiment and not an actual position on the laying. Just the same, before the Torah, there wasn't really a word for what we would call homosexuality. The word itself means same gender, but people in Classical times didn't think in these parameters. Sexuality was a sliding scale.

Because of this, your sexual orientation isn't so dissimilar to your artistic preferences. You like what you like, and people tend not to have a similar view of music and art, but no one asks if you were born "liking Metal." Its a ridiculous question, but its the same concept. You might not have been born liking metal, but you were likely born with those aesthetic appeals.

We don't persecute people who like Pollack for being unnatural, and suggest that Van Gogh was the real true version of painters. But thats how the anti-homosexual crowd is seen by those who don't believe orientation has a bearing on anything.

Its hard to imagine anyone asking if your preference in art is genetic.

Pedophilia is a different animal. No ones born liking to molest children. I don't think anyone would consider what happens in that act as necessary. And only those afflicted with pedophilia would ever think to try and pitch it as "love."

What you see with pedophilia is not just wrong in the action, but in the auxiliary as well. There is a great deal of corruption, coercion, secretiveness, and duplicity that goes along with pedophilia. You do not see that in homosexual relations except in instances which are similar to heterosexual relationships. If anything, no ones faking a pregnancy in homosexual relationships, so if anything, they're more honest.

I've worked with sexually molested children. I've actually had a molestation happen at the facility I worked for. Theres nothing honest about it, and after one has been molested, they are likely to become predators themselves.

Pedophilia has no joy around it. For one participant, its a carnal lashing out of their most sickening desires. For the other its nothing short of torture. The difference between this and a consenting relationship between two adults is so wide its like asking to compare elephants to shoe laces.
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:15 PM   #832 (permalink)
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Pedophilia has no joy around it. For one participant, its a carnal lashing out of their most sickening desires. For the other its nothing short of torture. The difference between this and a consenting relationship between two adults is so wide its like asking to compare elephants to shoe laces.
I wouldn't classify all cases like that. Both can consent to it but the issue lies in the fact that society doesn't deem children of the age to consent to it. I remember a teacher had sex with a student, it turns into a huge case, and then 10-15ish years later they end up married.
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:19 PM   #833 (permalink)
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I wouldn't classify all cases like that. Both can consent to it but the issue lies in the fact that society doesn't deem children of the age to consent to it. I remember a teacher had sex with a student, it turns into a huge case, and then 10-15ish years later they end up married.
That only changes the definition of who we determine to be a pedophile. Still, I'm referring to molestation between a 46 year old and a 6 year old.

The major difference in all cases is who has a firm grip on reality and who doesn't. You seem to be in Roman Polanski territory, I'm not. Either way, the child has no idea what they're doing. I dare say neither do 18 year olds, but the law is the law.
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:24 PM   #834 (permalink)
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That only changes the definition of who we determine to be a pedophile. Still, I'm referring to molestation between a 46 year old and a 6 year old.

The major difference in all cases is who has a firm grip on reality and who doesn't. You seem to be in Roman Polanski territory, I'm not. Either way, the child has no idea what they're doing. I dare say neither do 18 year olds, but the law is the law.
Well, obviously if it's a 6 year old or something. I just disagreed with the fact that you said every case would be torture as I thought you were including those that do have a firm grip on reality but still are of the age for it to be considered paedophilia.
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:25 PM   #835 (permalink)
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In 1952, when the American Psychiatric Association published its first Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, homosexuality was included as a disorder. Almost immediately, however, that classification began to be subjected to critical scrutiny in research funded by the National Institute of Mental Health. That study and subsequent research consistently failed to produce any empirical or scientific basis for regarding homosexuality as a disorder or abnormality, rather than a normal and healthy sexual orientation.

In recognition of the scientific evidence, the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from the DSM in 1973, stating that “homosexuality per se implies no impairment in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities.” After thoroughly reviewing the scientific data, the American Psychological Association adopted the same position in 1975, and urged all mental health professionals “to take the lead in removing the stigma of mental illness that has long been associated with homosexual orientations.” The National Association of Social Workers has adopted a similar policy.

The research and clinical literature demonstrate that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality. The longstanding consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions is that homosexuality per se is a normal and positive variation of human sexual orientation.
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:27 PM   #836 (permalink)
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In 1952, when the American Psychiatric Association published its first Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, homosexuality was included as a disorder. Almost immediately, however, that classification began to be subjected to critical scrutiny in research funded by the National Institute of Mental Health. That study and subsequent research consistently failed to produce any empirical or scientific basis for regarding homosexuality as a disorder or abnormality, rather than a normal and healthy sexual orientation.

In recognition of the scientific evidence, the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from the DSM in 1973, stating that “homosexuality per se implies no impairment in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities.” After thoroughly reviewing the scientific data, the American Psychological Association adopted the same position in 1975, and urged all mental health professionals “to take the lead in removing the stigma of mental illness that has long been associated with homosexual orientations.” The National Association of Social Workers has adopted a similar policy.

The research and clinical literature demonstrate that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality. The longstanding consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions is that homosexuality per se is a normal and positive variation of human sexual orientation.
Ok...I don't know what you're getting at. And for what its worth. Being an "only child" was once a mental disorder. The birthmarks of psychology better resemble alchemy and phrenology than modern psychology.
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:28 PM   #837 (permalink)
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Well, obviously if it's a 6 year old or something. I just disagreed with the fact that you said every case would be torture as I thought you were including those that do have a firm grip on reality but still are of the age for it to be considered paedophilia.
You must be 12. The only people who think a teenager has the life experience to know what they are getting into at that age are other teenagers. Growing up is realizing you don't know **** about everything.
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:29 PM   #838 (permalink)
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I wouldn't define it as a mental illness. You could almost call it a fetish. There are certain things that turn people on that they can't control and that's one of them. There are very few things that I think that people should not be allowed to practice, and paedophilia obviously falls into that category.
Sexual fetishism may be regarded, e.g. in psychiatric medicine, as a disorder of sexual preference or as an enhancing element to a relationship causing a better sexual bond between the partners.

Today Psychologists and medical practitioners regard fetishism as normal variations of human sexuality[citation needed]. Even those orientations that are potential forms of fetishism are usually considered unobjectionable as long as all people involved feel comfortable. Only if the diagnostic criteria presented in detail below are met is the medical diagnosis of fetishism justified. The leading criterion is that a fetishist is ill only if he or she suffers from the addiction, not simply because of the addiction itself.

Pedophilia is not a fetish
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:33 PM   #839 (permalink)
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Quite simply:
Homosexuality is considered normal
Fetishism is considered normal but a variation of sexual behavior
Pedophilia is a psychological disorder
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:35 PM   #840 (permalink)
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You must be 12. The only people who think a teenager has the life experience to know what they are getting into at that age are other teenagers. Growing up is realizing you don't know **** about everything.
Take it easy, Socrates. Everyone is different. Everyone knows what they want at different ages. You say growing up is realizing you don't know **** about anything yet you think you can get into the minds of everyone and know what they feel. Do I gain the ability to speculate on everyone's feelings and know exactly what they want and don't want when I turn 13, or do I have to have a molestation occur at my workplace as well?

Last edited by Thom Yorke; 09-22-2011 at 02:41 PM.
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