right-track

Well said. I suspected that was why you started this thread.
Your absence since has been obvious. I can only assume you've been reading with mixed feelings.
Probably laughing at some and shaking your head in despair at others. Maybe, nodding in agreement now and then too.

I'd like to see you quote some of the posts in here and address them in your own way.
I'd also like to hear some of the problems you have with homosexuals/homosexuality.
At least I'm hoping you do have certain issues and aren't going to defend particular aspects of homosexuals/homosexuality out of blind loyalty.

Look forward to your perspective and insights...

btw, I'm willing to stand corrected on any of the points I've outlined in the posts I've made, describing my problems with this subject.

adidasss

Thanks, I really appreciate this post, especially because yours are the posts I've been thinking about the most.

The problem is that I once had pretty much the same opinion you did about camp and campy gay people, I felt those kinds of homosexuals reflect negatively on all of us and perpetuate stereotypes.

This was years ago though, and at a time when I was just coming out and felt the need to gain acceptance and placate the hetero majority by conforming to their views of what is or isn't acceptable behavior. I think I can correlate the issue with what some people (including a lot of Croatian gay people, unfortunately) have with pride parades. They feel that it's contra-productive to "provoke" the heterosexual majority by "flaunting" our sexuality. Some heterosexual people like to say that they're ok with homosexuality, as long as you keep it in the bedroom. I believe this is what jackhammer wanted to say.

Obviously I don't agree with this. The main purpose of gay pride parades is to increase visibility, make people realize we do exists and are citizens of the same country and have a right to lead normal lives without being discriminated against despite being different. This is also why coming out is incredibly important. It's very easy to demonize what you don't know. Once you put a face and a personality on a label it's much harder to hold the same animosity you have against an "unknown enemy".

Regarding your posts, it made me wonder whether you have the same sort of negative feelings towards heterosexual people who are open about their sexuality (I know you've said you also disapprove of heterosexual people doing the same but what I'm wondering is if you have the same exact reaction to it). I'm gonna be honest and say that I feel you probably don't. But I'm not going to judge you too harshly because I have similar feelings of distaste when heterosexual people talk about their sexual lives. Mostly based on the fact that I don't relate and therefore get bored by it. Maybe this is what you're talking about (unless you have a problem with them talking about gay sex, which could be inferred from the "spare me the details" bit, which would be prejudice, but only you can answer that).

So, in short, I don't think anyone should stifle their personality just so they don't piss anyone off. I think diversity is wonderful and the more people show how different they are the better. That shouldn't be a reason to discriminate against anyone. Plus, campy men are probably the most fun people I know.

Regarding my problems with homosexuality, I'm gonna have to disappoint you here. Like I said, I have had some hangups in the past, but I got rid of most of them a while ago. Now if only I can get them to listen to some good music...

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“Think of what a paradise this world would be if men were kind and wise.” - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle.

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right-track

I'll try and answer your post in the short time I've got tonight as honestly as I can.

Apologies for breaking up your post into sections. It's not something I like doing because it looks like I'm nit picking.
That isn't the case at all.

You strike me as an introverted kind of person with a measured and thoughtful mindset. I know you're shy and find it difficult around people you're not comfortable with. It looks like you've found your own particular way to go forward.
By being you and not some kind of fake cartoon character.
Some people don't have that level of self assurance to be...just themselves.

Just out of interest. Would a high profile Straight Pride Parade be considered homophobic?
As we both know, a lot of heterosexual men feel threatened when homosexuals flaunt their sexuality.
That's their own insecurities at play.

I can't speak for Lee, but I'm comfortable around homosexuals.
I certainly don't have any issues with open acts of affection between two people of the same sex. Providing it doesn't exceed the normal standards that apply to everyone.
My niece is a lesbian (which is debatable due to her long history of attention seeking behaviour and her affection for shocking others at every opportunity she gets...but that's another story) and her long string of girlfriends, her behaviour and my tolerance, will bear testimony to my acceptance.

I'm not at all uncomfortable with homosexuals discussing their sex lives providing it's conducted on a mature level which reflects their personality.
What I mean by personality, is that in my experience, some people, whether straight or gay, have insecurity issues and they tend to overcompensate with displays of outrageous, attention seeking behaviour.
The discrimination on my part focuses on that kind of behaviour.
An arsehole is an arsehole in any language, nationality, gender, or sexual persuasion.
I don't truly believe that the over camp behaviour is a true personality trait, but is a forced, over the top persona.
Much the same as the straight guy bragging about his sexual conquests to the lads. It's their attempt to fit in.
I understand that many gay men have an effeminate nature and agree that they can be fun and genuinely comical.
These aren't the kind of gay men I'm referring to.

I've used an exert from an earlier post of mine as an example of the kind of gay, unfunny, interrupted twattery that irritates me no end;

OK...I get it (oooooooooh I bet you do!)...you're gay.
But please, please, please ("ooh, I love it when you beg") don't ram the fact down my throat ("you wish big boy")
I don't have a problem with your gayness, ("get him") but for Christs sake, spare me the fucking details! ("temper, temper")


It's not amusing in the least. In England there's been a steady stream of gay comedians who in my opinion are far from funny.
Are they comedians because they are funny? No, they are over camp, gay men who think they are funny by being over camp.
Not comedians in any sense of the word. It's tiresome.

That type of behaviour (the OTT kind) does piss me off and it isn't just their "personality" I'd like to stifle...but their breathing too.

Diversity makes the world a more colourful place to live, but not at the expense of sincerity.

Normal queers, yes. , but the drama queens are lost to Abba, The Village People et al.
Funny how they have shit taste in music isn't it?
No coincidence either!

Congratulations, you've just managed to make what I think is my longest post since I joined.

And the best of it is...after a quick read back, I could have answered it with the one sentence I just bolded.

adidasss

Ah, but we differ here. I'm introverted and shy because I don't have the self-assurance to be myself around new people. This is why I never give off a good first impression. I believe it's much better to be an extrovert, they're just generally more fun to be around with. And I think they really don't care what others think of them. This is why I respect and kinda admire campy people, they seem without inhibition and certainly more relaxed and free than I am...:\

I'd have to answer yes. Unlike gay people, straight people have all the legal rights, are a very visible majority and are generally not abused by gay people so I don't see what the purpose of that kind of parade would be, other than a direct negative reaction to gay parades ("if you can have a parade, so can we!" kind of attitude which overlooks the purpose of gay parades outlined above).

Incidentally, we've had such parades which promote "heterosexual values" for the last couple of years in Croatia parallel to gay parades (also one of the reasons why our parades look like this. Notice the charming blue men on the outskirts). Unsurprisingly, they're called "anti-gay" parades and are participated by a handful of radical christian whackjobs...:\

Ok, I think I understand what you're saying and don't fault you for it, but lemme just make a counterpoint which I believe has been stressed before; plenty of straight men are equally, if not more obnoxious towards women, yet no one thinks to judge their behavior solely on the fact of their sexual preference (i.e. they're not ramming their sexuality down anyone's throat), they're simply labeled as obnoxious. :\

__________________
“Think of what a paradise this world would be if men were kind and wise.” - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle.

Last.fm