Flower Child

If anyone wants to know what a backwoods hillbilly thinks about this here queerosexual matter, read on at your own risk.

I feel people who consider themselves gay deserve all the same rights anyone else does yay rah rah rah. If you want to be gay, be gay, by all means. Get married, adopt children, do the whole works.

But MY PROBLEM: as a naturalist, is that I totally fail to see how it is possible to be 'born' gay as many claim. I am definitely on the outside looking in on the issue, but I feel people aquire (lack of a better word) this feeling at some point in their life. A person's natural instinct is to desire the opposite sex, its just a matter of science, and I feel a person has to go through something after they are born to change this.

I am not doubting the fact that people really are truly gay, I'm just doubting the fact that they were born that way.

Freebase Dali

I dunno... I'm pretty sure if there is some genetic "setting" that predisposes people to be attracted to the opposite gender (which is both obvious and necessary for survival of the species) then it stands to reason that there could be a "malfunction" (for lack of a better, less offensive word) in that process that has more to do with biology than it does with anything else.

If you don't deny the fact that there is an abundance of biological anomalies, flaws, and mutations (which there are) regarding every aspect of human beings then you can't rightly deny the possibility that if sexual attraction is a biological mechanism, that it can't "malfunction" biologically.

Assuming that homosexuality is strictly a social/environmental construct is to contradict the fact that sexuality is biological to begin with.

Flower Child

I haven't heard of any scientific study that suggests this.

I would definitely reconsider my opinion if there was some evidence of course, but personally I have yet to hear of any.

I do not think any biological changes happen when a person decides or discovers they are gay. I think their mindset changes and that is all, yet I also feel like that is enough. No biological or instinctual changes needed.

I fail to see how that contradicts.

EDIT:
TO MAKE MY POINT MORE CLEAR
I feel like a mindset change is enough for a person to feel they are gay and to want the same sex, ultimately smothering out their instinctual feelings.

Freebase Dali

Uh... All [except (1)] of the things I typed that you're responding to here are fact. I'm pretty sure you know what I'm talking about, but for the sake of argument:
1. I said "if". Check that word out. (Used for supposition in logical comparison with the following:
2. Fact: there are indeed mutations in genetic sequences that cause anomalies in humans. You should agree that this is a biological phenomenon, and not a phenomenon that involves being molested or something to that effect, correct? (I'll assume yes here)
3. Because you agree with (2), you agree that IF base sexual preference exists as a biological function (which makes sense, because we probably wouldn't be very prolific as a species if it didn't) that it is entirely POSSIBLE that there could be a functional misstep in the biology of basic sexuality, as referenced in (2).

Now, I understand the apprehension in believing something scientific before there is proof, but you only have to use logic. In the scenario where a gay man or woman only becomes that way because he or she was traumatized into it requires FAR more supposition. And since there are many cases of homosexuals who have not been traumatized in any way refutes the entire position all together.

I dunno 'bout that. You're basically saying that every homosexual is aware of his or her "decision" to be gay and can simply "undecide". Or maybe you're saying that someone can be shocked into changing their sexual preference and they may not even realize it was an environmental thing? Either way, I think it'd be pretty hard to provide proof of either thing being a constant decider of homosexuality when there are so many people out there who can tell you a different story via experience.

And just for a side-quest, what do you think it would take for a person to "override" his own biological instincts and start being sexually attracted to the opposite gender?

Flower Child

Fact: Everything I say is fact, and I expect you all to accept it without question. Including you Freebase. And I clearly outlined that in my before post. Obviously.

Cmon, we're talking about something that affects roughly 4 percent of the population! (NOTE: I said roughly) I'm pretty sure that if scientists could prove people were born gay then it would have been done, or we would have heard something about it.

Just like you are assuming......I'm assuming that people are successfully able to smother instinctual feelings (sexuality) as a result to deal with trama, environment, desperation, society, WHATEVER, just like dogs are able to smother their instinct to bite after society affects or 'trains' them otherwise. A mindset changes. The instinct is still there, just smothered.

sooooccccciiiiiieeeettttttyyyyy maaaaaaaannnnn

I still think nobody is born gay.

Freebase Dali

You should look up what the word "fact" means.

And I still think you know very little about the sciences (since you're sitting around waiting for someone to "prove" something to you instead of using your own intellect to make intelligent deductions based on prior related scientific observations and facts) and who accepts the only alternative to homosexuality because it's a mainstream belief based on absolutely unprovable supposition and has roots in religious interests.

Something doesn't have to be declared "FACT" in the newspapers for you to be able to realize whether it works out logically or not. All it takes is a capable brain. If that's not something you're able, or willing, to provide then that's on you. Just state that now so I don't have to waste my time.

Why don't you just come out with it and tell us that the reason you believe what you do is because you were "taught that way". It would certainly support your theory of something as significant as sexual preference being environmentally influenced....