Depression and suicide

~~pooka~~ · 04-11-2011, 10:40 AM

im not going to battle this its not worth it, so think what you would like. i was just making a passing observation.

~~Dirty~~ · 04-11-2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman

But if they went to war and died defending Amurika, and left a wife and kids behind, they would be patriotic heros.

What's your point here? Are you comparing suicide to dying in war? How are they similar in any way other than the result being death?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanwllCorfe

You can't KNOW what he was thinking. They're not even close to being in a logical mindset. Don't forget that they kill themselves. It's pretty hard to imagine how much anguish they were feeling. And I believe my point STILL stands. Yes, he could have still helped them, but not in the way that he knew how. He had no plan B. Just imagine looking at your kid and your wife, thinking that you can't help them. You can't just say "well he should have thought THIS". That's like asking a murderer, "HEY, DID YOU EVEN THINK ABOUT THEIR FAMILY?!?!" People of sound mind don't commit suicide, obviously. And they're fully aware of what problems it will cause. So I don't think anyone can point the finger at them and say what they're doing is "selfish" because we really don't know what's going through their head. Especially one that's obviously compromised.

Your example of the fisherman and the BP oil spill is a perfect example of this kind of selfishness. Why did he kill himself? Because HE couldn't take HIS OWN guilt anymore. He knew dying wouldn't help his family and he did it anyways to get rid of HIS OWN suffering. Disregarding his family's in the process. A disgusting person.

I hate how with pretty much any disorder or disease or personal problem, everyone on MB for the most part uses that as some type of excuse for behavior. Oh, he's depressed, he can't think!!! Seriously, get a grip. Being depressed doesn't turn you into a mental retard and you still understand right from wrong. Suicide is pure selfishness at it's absolute highest level. Wanting to end YOUR suffering while knowing it will cause more suffering to others, and doing it anyways.

CanwllCorfe · 04-11-2011, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty

Your example of the fisherman and the BP oil spill is a perfect example of this kind of selfishness. Why did he kill himself? Because HE couldn't take HIS OWN guilt anymore. He knew dying wouldn't help his family and he did it anyways to get rid of HIS OWN suffering. Disregarding his family's in the process. A disgusting person.

I hate how with pretty much any disorder or disease or personal problem, everyone on MB for the most part uses that as some type of excuse for behavior. Oh, he's depressed, he can't think!!! Seriously, get a grip. Being depressed doesn't turn you into a mental retard and you still understand right from wrong. Suicide is pure selfishness at it's absolute highest level. Wanting to end YOUR suffering while knowing it will cause more suffering to others, and doing it anyways.

Yup! You know exactly how they think. You could be a great therapist!! !!!! You know everything!1! 11 Were you friends with the fisherman? You seem to know more than this close friends do. That's incredible!!!!1 I wish I had talked to you beforehand!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

To call something selfish is to imply that one's own interests are considered alone, however, depression being a mental illness, you can't bring any thought or logic into it. You simply can't claim thoughtlessness to a person who can't think normally. You can't ascribe any logical or decisive adjectives to an illness of that nature.

10,000 times over, THIS.

djchameleon · 04-11-2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanwllCorfe

You can't KNOW what he was thinking. They're not even close to being in a logical mindset. Don't forget that they kill themselves. It's pretty hard to imagine how much anguish they were feeling. And I believe my point STILL stands. Yes, he could have still helped them, but not in the way that he knew how. He had no plan B. Just imagine looking at your kid and your wife, thinking that you can't help them. You can't just say "well he should have thought THIS". That's like asking a murderer, "HEY, DID YOU EVEN THINK ABOUT THEIR FAMILY?!?!" People of sound mind don't commit suicide, obviously. And they're fully aware of what problems it will cause. So I don't think anyone can point the finger at them and say what they're doing is "selfish" because we really don't know what's going through their head. Especially one that's obviously compromised.

He was successful so I know that he was thinking that there were no other options even though there ARE numerous options but he's just so down and sad about the whole situation that he decides to give up on life like a coward.
I don't have to know exactly what he was thinking specifically but his actions are still considered selfish regardless of whatever he is thinking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

To call something selfish is to imply that one's own interests are considered alone, however, depression being a mental illness, you can't bring any thought or logic into it. You simply can't claim thoughtlessness to a person who can't think normally. You can't ascribe any logical or decisive adjectives to an illness of that nature.

I agree with what you say somewhat, but I still feel like it's a selfish act and we will have to agree to disagree.

People can be depressed and think normally though but it's usually not rational. Sure, it may be the illness talking but they are still only interested in themselves as in how they feel and how others make them feel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty

I hate how with pretty much any disorder or disease or personal problem, everyone on MB for the most part uses that as some type of excuse for behavior. Oh, he's depressed, he can't think!!! Seriously, get a grip. Being depressed doesn't turn you into a mental retard and you still understand right from wrong. Suicide is pure selfishness at it's absolute highest level. Wanting to end YOUR suffering while knowing it will cause more suffering to others, and doing it anyways.

OMFG this so much!

Society has a whole is like that. They never want to own up to their own responsibilities and love throwing the blame onto someone else.

~~Dirty~~ · 04-11-2011, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanwllCorfe

Yup! You know exactly how they think. You could be a great therapist!! !!!! You know everything!1! 11 Were you friends with the fisherman? You seem to know more than this close friends do. That's incredible!!!!1 I wish I had talked to you beforehand!!!

Yeah, you're right. He probably felt no guilt whatsoever. Even though that's exactly what you were implying with the whole "omg i cant imagine him looking at his wife and kid and knowing he cant provide for them!" I don't know him any better than you do, but I guess people like you are against making reasonable assumptions?? Tell you what, before I comment on any situation, regarding anyone, I'll make sure I call them up and schedule a formal luncheon. I'll have a booklet of questions and I'll write down the answers after the interview. Then I'll go home and study the hell out of the answers and make sure I know the person really well before commenting!!!

He didn't have the balls to stick it out for his loved ones. He'd rather sacrifice their well being for his personal escape. The guy was a coward and a loser.

Paedantic Basterd · 04-11-2011, 11:32 AM

I don't think irrational thought can be called normal.

CanwllCorfe · 04-11-2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

I don't have to know exactly what he was thinking specifically but his actions are still considered selfish regardless of whatever he is thinking.

This is the problem. You don't know what he was thinking, how he was feeling, and therefore you can't judge what he did. There's no room for logical thinking when it comes to suicide. I don't know how else I can explain it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

I don't consider irrational thought to be normal...

Exactly. I think I'm done. I've made my point.

~~pooka~~ · 04-11-2011, 12:01 PM

nah maybe i will battle a bit its a slow day.

i worked on the dual dignosis unit of WPIC in pittsburgh for two years. for noobs dual diagnosis is drug addicts with mental health issues. now these patients did bizarre skitt every hour, such as throw chairs, somehow barricade themselves in rooms, the whole 9 yards. i went into this job thinking "wtf? these people are crazy." but in all actuality the skitt they did stemmed from a reasonable reason. the chairthrower was mad because the staff disrepected her, the barricader wanted to go home. these is simple outbursts, i could name a thousand that are outrageous, yet still have a basis in rationality.

i like how you assume i dont know what im speaking of but thats ok.

Paedantic Basterd · 04-11-2011, 12:07 PM

I just can't agree with you when you've generalized all mental illness and disregarded the thousands of avenues and variables an illness can take. ''Mental health issues'' is too broad for this conversation. That could mean anything from being sociopathic to having ADHD. We're talking about depression. Talk to me about the depressed people you've worked with.

~~pooka~~ · 04-11-2011, 12:08 PM

ok, how much time do you have? ill tell you all about it, hence why this thread scares me.

View Poll Results: Is suicide cowardly?
Yes	39	20.74%
No	79	42.02%
Sometimes, depends on the circumstances (kids etc.)	70	37.23%
Voters: 188. You may not vote on this poll

04-11-2011, 11:32 AM	#296 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	I don't think irrational thought can be called normal. Last edited by Paedantic Basterd; 04-11-2011 at 11:39 AM. Reason: rephrase

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04-11-2011, 10:40 AM	#291 (permalink)
~~pooka~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: the local county jail Posts: 133	im not going to battle this its not worth it, so think what you would like. i was just making a passing observation.

04-11-2011, 12:01 PM	#298 (permalink)
~~pooka~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: the local county jail Posts: 133	nah maybe i will battle a bit its a slow day. i worked on the dual dignosis unit of WPIC in pittsburgh for two years. for noobs dual diagnosis is drug addicts with mental health issues. now these patients did bizarre skitt every hour, such as throw chairs, somehow barricade themselves in rooms, the whole 9 yards. i went into this job thinking "wtf? these people are crazy." but in all actuality the skitt they did stemmed from a reasonable reason. the chairthrower was mad because the staff disrepected her, the barricader wanted to go home. these is simple outbursts, i could name a thousand that are outrageous, yet still have a basis in rationality. i like how you assume i dont know what im speaking of but thats ok.

04-11-2011, 12:07 PM	#299 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	I just can't agree with you when you've generalized all mental illness and disregarded the thousands of avenues and variables an illness can take. ''Mental health issues'' is too broad for this conversation. That could mean anything from being sociopathic to having ADHD. We're talking about depression. Talk to me about the depressed people you've worked with.

04-11-2011, 12:08 PM	#300 (permalink)
~~pooka~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: the local county jail Posts: 133	ok, how much time do you have? ill tell you all about it, hence why this thread scares me.