Depression and suicide

Chainsawkitten · 08-22-2010, 11:55 AM

I also denied my depression at first. I somehow managed to get myself to believe that it was insignificant and not serious. "If it would've been serious I'd already have killed myself." or similar thoughts. This was largely fueled by a very "anti-emo" environment were any signs of depression or emotional instability were seen as mere attention seeking. People discovering my depression was my greatest fear. I didn't want to be an annoyance and my problems were insignificant anyways.

First when I realized that I was depressed and it was serious did I manage to change my ways of thinking. The first step to curing yourself is not Prozac or similar, it's being aware of your depression and wanting to do something about it. I doubt force-feeding someone medicine is going to help.

The problem, tore, is that you expect the depressed individual to be rational. Strong emotions are the very opposite of rational thinking.

CanwllCorfe · 08-22-2010, 12:12 PM

I think it depends. I know that's the easy way out (no pun intended) but for me it does depend on the circumstances. If they're doing it because they can't handle all the things on their table, then yes. You should just man up and deal with it all. But if it's because they simply have no real enjoyment in life and struggle to make it through the day, then no. If anything it's selfish to try and keep them alive. They don't want to live, so let them die. I have issues with depression every now and then. Sometimes it gets triggered by something, other times I just wake up sad. I think about suicide and death and all that sunshine but I've kinda gotten used to it. I think it's been around 6-7 years since it started so I've been able to figure out how to cope with it. I plan on talking to the doctor when I go to my next physical.

Spike*Spiegel · 08-22-2010, 12:18 PM

depression and suicide = overrated and obnoxious. You cough the wrong way and the doctor is jumping out of his undies to prescribe you some Zoloft or some other potentially dangerous chemical the pharmaceutical companies have deemed effective and safe treatments.. Then again, didn't they tell us that Paxil was one of the safest medications to take for depression and low and behold it actually multiplied risk for suicide, caused birth defects and death was actually one of the listed side effects... (which is not uncommon in antidepressant side effects)
I had a terrible problem with sever depression in my teenage years and tried a plethora of medications to control it. Most of the time, I ended up walking around feeling like a zombie, or experienced strange bouts of aggression from my body's reaction to it or simply felt high and disconnected. The best treatment, I've found and many others have agreed, is simple exercise and eating healthily. Many times, the chemical imbalance that causes depression stems for a lack of serotonin, norepinephrine or misregulation (I made that word up) of either of those or dopamine. After a simple 40 minute cardio workout your body goes to work releasing and helping to regulate these things. Sometimes, the problem comes from improper nutrition, which is where eating correctly comes into play. Greasy, fatty or sugary foods are not going to give your body what it needs in order to function properly. In fact, they are quite addicting, as well. I could go on for hours with this, but my point is that depression is a diagnoses they are much too free with handing out. Most people, I believe, need to get off their asses and do something about it, but we live in an instant gratification society where we want the quickest fix- the "magic" pill- to do the work for you. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand that there are cases of genuine depression, bipolar and anxiety disorders that do exist where nothing but a medication or ECT can help, but I firmly believe that they far, far fewer than the general public is led to believe. *gets off soapbox*

Landon · 08-22-2010, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike*Spiegel

depression and suicide = overrated and obnoxious. You cough the wrong way and the doctor is jumping out of his undies to prescribe you some Zoloft or some other potentially dangerous chemical the pharmaceutical companies have deemed effective and safe treatments.. Then again, didn't they tell us that Paxil was one of the safest medications to take for depression and low and behold it actually multiplied risk for suicide, caused birth defects and death was actually one of the listed side effects... (which is not uncommon in antidepressant side effects)
I had a terrible problem with sever depression in my teenage years and tried a plethora of medications to control it. Most of the time, I ended up walking around feeling like a zombie, or experienced strange bouts of aggression from my body's reaction to it or simply felt high and disconnected. The best treatment, I've found and many others have agreed, is simple exercise and eating healthily. Many times, the chemical imbalance that causes depression stems for a lack of serotonin, norepinephrine or misregulation (I made that word up) of either of those or dopamine. After a simple 40 minute cardio workout your body goes to work releasing and helping to regulate these things. Sometimes, the problem comes from improper nutrition, which is where eating correctly comes into play. Greasy, fatty or sugary foods are not going to give your body what it needs in order to function properly. In fact, they are quite addicting, as well. I could go on for hours with this, but my point is that depression is a diagnoses they are much too free with handing out. Most people, I believe, need to get off their asses and do something about it, but we live in an instant gratification society where we want the quickest fix- the "magic" pill- to do the work for you. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand that there are cases of genuine depression, bipolar and anxiety disorders that do exist where nothing but a medication or ECT can help, but I firmly believe that they far, far fewer than the general public is led to believe. *gets off soapbox*

I agree completely with everything stated in this post.

SATCHMO · 08-22-2010, 12:40 PM

I've suffered from a low-grade mild depression my entire life. In some ways it has had a debilitating effect on me in other ways it has shaped a lot of the positive attributes of who I am. People who are depressed tend to be more contemplative and introspective and give more weight to spiritual, psychological, and philosophical issues than others. The exploration of the self along with the exploration of root cause of depression has lead me down some very unconventional paths that I do not regret following, and have made the person I am today.

@Spike: The onset of depression as an epidemic in our culture (as well as the mass onset of ADD/ADHD) coincides directly with two things: the advent of television and mass media and the introduction of preservatives and artificial ingredients in our foods, so your recommendation of a healthier diet and exercise as ways to stave off depression is a very good one. For some that impetus may be lacking and I think that Anti-depressant medication can be a good last resort tool to get the ball rolling, but I'm not very fond of the idea except for in last resort scenarios.

Arya Stark · 08-22-2010, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike*Spiegel

depression and suicide = overrated and obnoxious. You cough the wrong way and the doctor is jumping out of his undies to prescribe you some Zoloft or some other potentially dangerous chemical the pharmaceutical companies have deemed effective and safe treatments.. Then again, didn't they tell us that Paxil was one of the safest medications to take for depression and low and behold it actually multiplied risk for suicide, caused birth defects and death was actually one of the listed side effects... (which is not uncommon in antidepressant side effects)
I had a terrible problem with sever depression in my teenage years and tried a plethora of medications to control it. Most of the time, I ended up walking around feeling like a zombie, or experienced strange bouts of aggression from my body's reaction to it or simply felt high and disconnected. The best treatment, I've found and many others have agreed, is simple exercise and eating healthily. Many times, the chemical imbalance that causes depression stems for a lack of serotonin, norepinephrine or misregulation (I made that word up) of either of those or dopamine. After a simple 40 minute cardio workout your body goes to work releasing and helping to regulate these things. Sometimes, the problem comes from improper nutrition, which is where eating correctly comes into play. Greasy, fatty or sugary foods are not going to give your body what it needs in order to function properly. In fact, they are quite addicting, as well. I could go on for hours with this, but my point is that depression is a diagnoses they are much too free with handing out. Most people, I believe, need to get off their asses and do something about it, but we live in an instant gratification society where we want the quickest fix- the "magic" pill- to do the work for you. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand that there are cases of genuine depression, bipolar and anxiety disorders that do exist where nothing but a medication or ECT can help, but I firmly believe that they far, far fewer than the general public is led to believe. *gets off soapbox*

So that doesn't mean depression and suicide are overrated and obnoxious, it seems to me you're talking more the way people handle the actual situations and everything like that.

TheBig3 · 08-22-2010, 12:41 PM

The word cowardly used in an argument like this is partisan. It belies your position. The idea that killing yourself is an easy escape comes from an ignorant mind. (literal ignorance). Killing yourself is not an easy decision. Cowardly might be actions like walking away from a responsibility. Its arrogant to assume anyone has a responsibility to stay alive for anyone other than themselves.

For my own opinion, I think suicide is a sad end result, but I'm hesitant to feel badly for them. Depression is, in a majority of cases, an ailment that's easily beaten. I look at suicide as either a failure of the person or the persons friends/family to successfully change situations to address the problem.

On NPR recently they had a reporter tell a story of his trip to Africa. He went to study a tribal cure for depression and it involved dancing naked outside, covered in ram's blood with people dancing around you, and everyone chanting and at the end saying something to the effect of "dear bad spirits, please leave me to my own life." (he went through it for his own depression)

That was in Senegal, he goes back to another country in Africa years later for something totally unrelated and starts talking to a guy about it. He say "yeah we have something like that, but we actually had a host of Western Psychologists come here to fight depression, and we actually had to ask them to leave."

When he asked what had happened, the guy tells him "well they were just really bizarre. They didn't have you get in the sun, which everyone knows fights depression, and they didn't have them dance or sing or anything else that really gets you up. They made you sit in a dark room and talk about bad things that had happened to you."

He opened his story with some statement like "I study depression. I found that if you have brain cancer, and standing on your head and gargling water makes you feel better you probably still have brain cancer. However, if you have depression, and standing on your head and gargling water makes you feel better, you're actually better."

That about sums up my feelings on the subject. People can find things that make them feel better. I still believe a great deal of people like the attention depression gives them so suggestions from friends are ignored. Those folks generally don't kill themselves. I find if someone is actually suffering from depression they are willing to pursue solutions.

Spike*Spiegel · 08-22-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

The word cowardly used in an argument like this is partisan. It belies your position. The idea that killing yourself is an easy escape comes from an ignorant mind. (literal ignorance). Killing yourself is not an easy decision. Cowardly might be actions like walking away from a responsibility. Its arrogant to assume anyone has a responsibility to stay alive for anyone other than themselves.

For my own opinion, I think suicide is a sad end result, but I'm hesitant to feel badly for them. Depression is, in a majority of cases, an ailment that's easily beaten. I look at suicide as either a failure of the person or the persons friends/family to successfully change situations to address the problem.

On NPR recently they had a reporter tell a story of his trip to Africa. He went to study a tribal cure for depression and it involved dancing naked outside, covered in ram's blood with people dancing around you, and everyone chanting and at the end saying something to the effect of "dear bad spirits, please leave me to my own life." (he went through it for his own depression)

That was in Senegal, he goes back to another country in Africa years later for something totally unrelated and starts talking to a guy about it. He say "yeah we have something like that, but we actually had a host of Western Psychologists come here to fight depression, and we actually had to ask them to leave."

When he asked what had happened, the guy tells him "well they were just really bizarre. They didn't have you get in the sun, which everyone knows fights depression, and they didn't have them dance or sing or anything else that really gets you up. They made you sit in a dark room and talk about bad things that had happened to you."

He opened his story with some statement like "I study depression. I found that if you have brain cancer, and standing on your head and gargling water makes you feel better you probably still have brain cancer. However, if you have depression, and standing on your head and gargling water makes you feel better, you're actually better."

That about sums up my feelings on the subject. People can find things that make them feel better. I still believe a great deal of people like the attention depression gives them so suggestions from friends are ignored. Those folks generally don't kill themselves. I find if someone is actually suffering from depression they are willing to pursue solutions.

I like this

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwwSugar

So that doesn't mean depression and suicide are overrated and obnoxious, it seems to me you're talking more the way people handle the actual situations and everything like that.

They are obnoxious. I'm about to come off sounding like a callous bitch, but I'm so effing tired of everybody whining about how "depressed" they are and how they "should just kill themselves because nobody would care anyway". You know what? I wouldn't care. The world is much better off without needy little *******s crying out for the sake of crying out. That type of "give-me-attention-I'm-entitled-to-it" attitude makes me sick. I've had to deal with the death of a very close friend because he had an extreme case of bipolar disorder, but could not afford to pay for the medication. He blew his head off in a park. I was very, very sad and am sympathetic to situations like that-- where they seek help, but are denied it. I do not feel any sympathy for those who just give up, simply because they don't want to try anymore. That's lazy and cowardly. Nonetheless, this is an unwinnable argument, because this is based on opinions and feelings, so let's agree to disagree because I know you won't agree with this.

Arya Stark · 08-22-2010, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike*Spiegel

I like this

They are obnoxious. I'm about to come off sounding like a callous bitch, but I'm so effing tired of everybody whining about how "depressed" they are and how they "should just kill themselves because nobody would care anyway". You know what? I wouldn't care. The world is much better off without needy little *******s crying out for the sake of crying out. That type of "give-me-attention-I'm-entitled-to-it" attitude makes me sick. I've had to deal with the death of a very close friend because he had an extreme case of bipolar disorder, but could not afford to pay for the medication. He blew his head off in a park. I was very, very sad and am sympathetic to situations like that-- where they seek help, but are denied it. I do not feel any sympathy for those who just give up, simply because they don't want to try anymore. That's lazy and cowardly. Nonetheless, this is an unwinnable argument, because this is based on opinions and feelings, so let's agree to disagree because I know you won't agree with this.

Well obviously I don't agree with that.
Being depressed is different for everyone. Yeah, I'm sure there are a lot of people that "whine" about being depressed. But they either really need your attention because they ARE depressed and that's their way of looking for help... or they want your attention and are acting as if they are depressed and need help in some other way.
It's not lazy to give up, sometimes people just can't handle what they're dealing with.

Not everyone can be strong.
I know we're obviously disagreeing about this, but I honestly think you're being illogical.

CanwllCorfe · 08-22-2010, 01:10 PM

I've never heard of a truly depressed person flaunting it. It sounds like you're talking about those who just act it and employ histrionics as a tactic to get attention. Which, I've only met one person like that. But she's better now. She's moved out of the faux-emo movement because that's so 2006. Now it's all about being indie.

View Poll Results: Is suicide cowardly?
Yes	39	20.74%
No	79	42.02%
Sometimes, depends on the circumstances (kids etc.)	70	37.23%
Voters: 188. You may not vote on this poll

08-22-2010, 11:55 AM	#41 (permalink)
Chainsawkitten Groupie Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Sweden Posts: 42	I also denied my depression at first. I somehow managed to get myself to believe that it was insignificant and not serious. "If it would've been serious I'd already have killed myself." or similar thoughts. This was largely fueled by a very "anti-emo" environment were any signs of depression or emotional instability were seen as mere attention seeking. People discovering my depression was my greatest fear. I didn't want to be an annoyance and my problems were insignificant anyways. First when I realized that I was depressed and it was serious did I manage to change my ways of thinking. The first step to curing yourself is not Prozac or similar, it's being aware of your depression and wanting to do something about it. I doubt force-feeding someone medicine is going to help. The problem, tore, is that you expect the depressed individual to be rational. Strong emotions are the very opposite of rational thinking. Last edited by Chainsawkitten; 08-22-2010 at 12:01 PM.

08-22-2010, 12:12 PM	#42 (permalink)
CanwllCorfe Quiet Man in the Corner Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pocono Mountains Posts: 2,480	I think it depends. I know that's the easy way out (no pun intended) but for me it does depend on the circumstances. If they're doing it because they can't handle all the things on their table, then yes. You should just man up and deal with it all. But if it's because they simply have no real enjoyment in life and struggle to make it through the day, then no. If anything it's selfish to try and keep them alive. They don't want to live, so let them die. I have issues with depression every now and then. Sometimes it gets triggered by something, other times I just wake up sad. I think about suicide and death and all that sunshine but I've kinda gotten used to it. I think it's been around 6-7 years since it started so I've been able to figure out how to cope with it. I plan on talking to the doctor when I go to my next physical. __________________ Your eyes were never yet let in to see the majesty and riches of the mind, but dwell in darkness; for your God is blind.

08-22-2010, 12:41 PM	#47 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	The word cowardly used in an argument like this is partisan. It belies your position. The idea that killing yourself is an easy escape comes from an ignorant mind. (literal ignorance). Killing yourself is not an easy decision. Cowardly might be actions like walking away from a responsibility. Its arrogant to assume anyone has a responsibility to stay alive for anyone other than themselves. For my own opinion, I think suicide is a sad end result, but I'm hesitant to feel badly for them. Depression is, in a majority of cases, an ailment that's easily beaten. I look at suicide as either a failure of the person or the persons friends/family to successfully change situations to address the problem. On NPR recently they had a reporter tell a story of his trip to Africa. He went to study a tribal cure for depression and it involved dancing naked outside, covered in ram's blood with people dancing around you, and everyone chanting and at the end saying something to the effect of "dear bad spirits, please leave me to my own life." (he went through it for his own depression) That was in Senegal, he goes back to another country in Africa years later for something totally unrelated and starts talking to a guy about it. He say "yeah we have something like that, but we actually had a host of Western Psychologists come here to fight depression, and we actually had to ask them to leave." When he asked what had happened, the guy tells him "well they were just really bizarre. They didn't have you get in the sun, which everyone knows fights depression, and they didn't have them dance or sing or anything else that really gets you up. They made you sit in a dark room and talk about bad things that had happened to you." He opened his story with some statement like "I study depression. I found that if you have brain cancer, and standing on your head and gargling water makes you feel better you probably still have brain cancer. However, if you have depression, and standing on your head and gargling water makes you feel better, you're actually better." That about sums up my feelings on the subject. People can find things that make them feel better. I still believe a great deal of people like the attention depression gives them so suggestions from friends are ignored. Those folks generally don't kill themselves. I find if someone is actually suffering from depression they are willing to pursue solutions. __________________ I've moved to a new address

08-22-2010, 01:10 PM	#50 (permalink)
CanwllCorfe Quiet Man in the Corner Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pocono Mountains Posts: 2,480	I've never heard of a truly depressed person flaunting it. It sounds like you're talking about those who just act it and employ histrionics as a tactic to get attention. Which, I've only met one person like that. But she's better now. She's moved out of the faux-emo movement because that's so 2006. Now it's all about being indie. __________________ Your eyes were never yet let in to see the majesty and riches of the mind, but dwell in darkness; for your God is blind.

08-22-2010, 12:18 PM	#43 (permalink)
Spike*Spiegel Five Feet of Fury Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: suburbanite Posts: 761	depression and suicide = overrated and obnoxious. You cough the wrong way and the doctor is jumping out of his undies to prescribe you some Zoloft or some other potentially dangerous chemical the pharmaceutical companies have deemed effective and safe treatments.. Then again, didn't they tell us that Paxil was one of the safest medications to take for depression and low and behold it actually multiplied risk for suicide, caused birth defects and death was actually one of the listed side effects... (which is not uncommon in antidepressant side effects) I had a terrible problem with sever depression in my teenage years and tried a plethora of medications to control it. Most of the time, I ended up walking around feeling like a zombie, or experienced strange bouts of aggression from my body's reaction to it or simply felt high and disconnected. The best treatment, I've found and many others have agreed, is simple exercise and eating healthily. Many times, the chemical imbalance that causes depression stems for a lack of serotonin, norepinephrine or misregulation (I made that word up) of either of those or dopamine. After a simple 40 minute cardio workout your body goes to work releasing and helping to regulate these things. Sometimes, the problem comes from improper nutrition, which is where eating correctly comes into play. Greasy, fatty or sugary foods are not going to give your body what it needs in order to function properly. In fact, they are quite addicting, as well. I could go on for hours with this, but my point is that depression is a diagnoses they are much too free with handing out. Most people, I believe, need to get off their asses and do something about it, but we live in an instant gratification society where we want the quickest fix- the "magic" pill- to do the work for you. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand that there are cases of genuine depression, bipolar and anxiety disorders that do exist where nothing but a medication or ECT can help, but I firmly believe that they far, far fewer than the general public is led to believe. gets off soapbox

08-22-2010, 12:40 PM	#45 (permalink)
SATCHMO Al Dente Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,708	I've suffered from a low-grade mild depression my entire life. In some ways it has had a debilitating effect on me in other ways it has shaped a lot of the positive attributes of who I am. People who are depressed tend to be more contemplative and introspective and give more weight to spiritual, psychological, and philosophical issues than others. The exploration of the self along with the exploration of root cause of depression has lead me down some very unconventional paths that I do not regret following, and have made the person I am today. @Spike: The onset of depression as an epidemic in our culture (as well as the mass onset of ADD/ADHD) coincides directly with two things: the advent of television and mass media and the introduction of preservatives and artificial ingredients in our foods, so your recommendation of a healthier diet and exercise as ways to stave off depression is a very good one. For some that impetus may be lacking and I think that Anti-depressant medication can be a good last resort tool to get the ball rolling, but I'm not very fond of the idea except for in last resort scenarios.