Depression and suicide
 

I was having a conversation about the subject of suicide and depression, and the people I were discussing it with were of the opinion that killing yourself is wrong because it's selfish. I was wondering what MBers felt about this. My argument was simply - holding a gun to your head, taking pills so that your internal organs collapse, holding a noose around your neck is not selfish.

And depression IS a mental illness/disorder. It all steamed from talking about rock stars drugged up and killing themselves (Kurt Cobain, I think.) and they were taking the moral high ground about drugs etc. I showed them this clip:



So taking the moral high ground about drugs was stupid on their part really. But that's besides the point.

The question I ask to you, is suicide cowardly?

aside from running from problems, it sort of isn't knowing it takes a lot of conviction because that self preservation part-GOOD FEAR- says don't do it. knowing your opiniona are that strong, they didn't die so weak after all.

EDIT: Sorry, chose wrong poll choice.

In a way I think it's cowardly, a lot of people who do commit suicide are people who don't know how to ask for help, and most of them that you talk to, they want to be talked out of it. It's ****ing depressing to think about though, especially when you know someone who's killed themselves. I guess some people would say it's not, taking your own life into your own hands and whatnot

what about the devastated families you leave behind that are going to have to live with your decision for the rest of their lives?

I know, I think the statistic is 60% of people who commit suicide are depressed. I don't know what the other 40% are, I can't imagine they're as happy as f*cking larry but there you go.

Maybe the 40% are just attention seekers? But 60% of people who commit suicide have a genuine disorder.

I think it's a really misunderstood illness and people shun it by simply saying that they're selfish. Because they wouldn't dream of leaving their family behind and making them suffer etc. but then again, they don't understand the mind set of somebody who is depressed.

I can see both sides of the coin, but it's an interesting topic I think.

That's probably one of the first things they think about.

The family thing is something that always scared the **** out of me when I contemplated it, just the image of my mother finding my corpse really **** me up and scared me out of it

I highly doubt that, otherwise they wouldn't do it.

so how is it not selfish to say "fuck them?" there are other ways to deal with mental disorders.

Yeah, that's what my first post was about. They have the strongest and firmest convictions in the world, having they're heart set on their decision. Same with determination. Those who are determined know there are no excuses for what they must do not happening.

Well this topic is so subjective and sensitive, I remember doing a research paper on suicide. The thing is, you'll never know what's going in the mind of that person, how difficult life may be to them, and their struggles. What if they did ask for help? What if no one did? What if people tried and failed? It's difficult to pin point where you went wrong in life, and I guess when you're depressed and in that state of intense depression and solitude, it'll be a spontaneous thing. To want to take your own life, consequences become trivial, maybe you'd wonder who'd miss you when you're gone. What if no one comes to mind? Maybe you'd think about your mom and dad, and how they'd miss you, but life's too unbearable at the moment to want to stay. It's a difficult thing, to say someone who committed suicide is selfish. We'll never know their state of mind... you ever read suicide letters? Awfully depressing how people think of themselves sometimes... especially when you read that it's a little girl of 13years old getting picked on because she's overweight. Or this little boy getting bullied because he's a "nerd". It really is a saddening though.. I don't think I can easily call them cowards.

From what I've seen, especially in Britain there really aren't. Anti-depressants and a doctors note so you can sit around in your house all day, isolated.

There's a school of thought that anti-depressants do more harm than good, but I don't know whether they do or not.

But treatment for it seems extremely poor. I remember talking to Vanilla about this a while ago, and she said in New Zealand if you say you have depression, there's some kind of process, more extensive testing is required.

Over here, you need to say the right things and you get a doctors note.

Maybe some people feel that the understanding and treatment for depression is so misunderstood, they have no other option. Or maybe they don't know how to seek help.

Suicide is their way, but it's not the best way.

thomasracer, I don't think you're making any ****ing sense

what do you mean? i'm just saying some think that's the only way out.

for the record, i voted that it depends on the circumstances.

When I was 14 a girl at my school committed suicide. It was a private Catholic girls school so it was right controversial, and nobody really knew how to handle it as suicide is considered against God's will or whatever.

Not being a big religion person I just felt horrible for the girl, but there definitely were a lot of people who felt differently. When the teachers spoke about they called it 'the horrible accident' and they refused to see it as suicide, saying that she'd lost her way and all this other crap. Some bible-basher girls tried to convince me what she did was selfish and cruel, but I dont think killing yourself is selfish or cruel. Its just giving up really :/

I hate how they all avoided the word suicide, as if there was no way a 14 year old girl could be so unhappy. I hardly knew her, but telling someone theyre selfish for feeling sad is horrible. Espescially under these circumstances.

TheCunningStunt, I don't think the fact that suicide is something depressed people do and likely has a genetic basis takes away blame. It doesn't remove the fact that you still have a choice in the matter. If your choice is to kill yourself, then that seems selfish to me. It focuses only on the self, the problems and the way out of them, but ignores the wealth of new problems their suicide can cause to their loved ones.

Granted, context is important but that's how I generally feel.

I agree with this post... I don't think that anyone who hasn't been in that kind of state can even begin to assess whether suicide is cowardly or not. It's all in the mindset, and depression really alters your judgement. And can suicide ever be considered selfish? I don't think there's a lot of 'self' involved in an act like that.

However, I will say that it's almost always cowardly to commit suicide if you have kids... you should never abandon your kids.

I put sometimes because I think that if you have kids or a lot of people that care about you then you should really try absolutely everything before committing suicide (which I doubt a lot do). However, in other circumstances I think it can be understandable because of what they have to live with, etc. The thing is, in almost all cases you have absolutely no idea what's going through their head and so you can't say how you'd react in their position, therefore you're in no place to call them cowardly or not.

If you don't want to live, you don't have to imo.

When I was about 8/9 I wrote a note saying goodbye, I had no reason whatsoever to wite it. And had no intentions of killing myself, as I didn't really understand how that happened. But I wanted to disappear nevertheless.

So you don't feel there are any moral obligations as a friend, brother, sister, son, daughter or as a parent to not kill yourself?

There are of course, but why should someone live their life hating it feeling an endless torture everyday? I mean it's selfish but if you're so upset you want to kill yourself your family cant care that much or they'd help.

Of course it's selfish. It's a permenant solution to a temporary emotion, unfortunately people who are wanting to kill themselves usually have the issue of not knowing where to go for help which is sad but the domino effect it will inevitably have on their family is really what makes it selfish.

I've been depressed, in some ways it still lingers around me like a smoky haze. It shocked me one night a couple of weeks ago as I got drunk alone so I could sleep and contemplated going to the kitchen, getting a knife and stabbing my stomach with it. When I woke up the next day I realised how ridiculous that idea was, but there is still that chance if I was upset enough, maybe I would have done it drunk.

So I don't believe it's black and white. When you think suicidal thoughts yes it is selfish but only because you want to take away the pain. In some ways maybe you might convince yourself that your family would rather you not live in pain anymore.

I just want to add though that I am generally okay and write poetry to get out any negativity. I plan on making a book out of it.

This.

And this.

I think most people who kill themselves do so because they feel anything is preferable to the excruciating emotional pain of living that they are experiencing. I suspect many people who want to kill themselves wrestle with feeling it is selfish and escapist, and then that probably makes them feel worse about themselves. Labeling people as selfish for being unable to figure a way out of their suffering doesn't help.

You have the right to do what your parents religious beliefs and abortion laws couldn't do if you see fit, IMO. Some people don't like life, never have, and never will. Suicide is something we should try to reach out to and prevent. But it's going to happen, we should all accept it as a normal method of death. Until we can make life in this world perfect for everyone in it, people will be killing themselves... deal with it.

I wish I didn't put in the sometimes option, too many people will be getting splinters sat on that fence.

I've suffered from depression on and off over the past couple of years, and i'd be lying if i said i'd never thought about suicide, it just seemed like the simplest solution sometimes. But when one of my sister's best friends killed herself last Christmas i saw first hand the devastation that suicide can cause, she left behind her two year old son as well as her family and friends, it was really difficult to make sense of it all and nearly seven months later my sister has never fully gotten over it. It really made me realise that suicide is definitely not worth doing, it's a selfish solution to your own personal problems that causes pain and devastation to everyone that cares about you.

Somebody once told me it was selfish.
By not thinking of the pain, money, and horrible nightmares it will cause their loved ones.

It made me think twice, cause I was pretty depressed at the time.
I don't know how I feel about the whole situation now.

Sorry to everyone who has ever been depressed :-(

Don't apologize. Sometimes there's just nothing anyone can do.

Aside from that, people are depressed for different reasons.
Everyone reacts to situations differently, so I don't think it's fair to judge someone's emotions.

I think there's a lot of things people can do, for one mental illness is so stigmatised it makes anyone with a legit one scared/unable to get help. It's disgusting, people treat it's like a joke when it's a ****ing terrible thing when it goes untreated and it's hell to live with. It may sound ridiculous saying this, but I'm kind of glad I'm type 1 bipolar, I don't have depressive episodes so much, because they are ****ing hell.

It seems like a weird thing to say, but I completely understand.

I can understand how people in absolutely desperate situations feel like it's their only option like people who are struggling to provide for their family or being bullied everyday etc. But you see 16 year old kids killing themselves because they split up with their boyfriend/girlfriend and the like which I find incredibly selfish. Especially when you see their parents or siblings, who have the deal with the devastation for the rest of their lives.

I had a professor explain to me that when he was in college he had a girl friend and they were serious and what not. At some point her mood started to change and she was getting extremely depressed and showed all the signs of it. At some point she tried to commit suicide in some awful way. Then she was placed into an intensive care type thing where she tried to kill herself all the time. Point is that he said that it would have been selfish of himself to believe that his agony of her being dead would be worse than her agony of living.

It is our societal perception that killing yourself is cowardly for some reason.

Back when I was seriously depressed and contemplated suicide I had very low self-esteem and deemed myself useless. I honestly believed that my friends and family would be better off without me, that I would actually be doing them a favor. Sure, they'd be depressed at first, for quite a while at that, but in the long run they'd do better without me. I wouldn't call that selfish.

Of course it was nothing but a delusion but in by desperate condition I was willing to believe anything that could make my actions seem more justified. A selfish thing perhaps, but not really a concious choice.

Thank Vishnu/God/whatever deity you do or don't believe in, I didn't do it.

Although I haven't personally suffered from depression - and although I know depression is horrible also in that it pacifies many people and make them less able to deal with their problems, we do have stuff like prozac now. One of my friends was getting happy pills because he was depressed and the idea was that it would make him feel better and also help him tackle the causes of his depression psychologically so that he could come off the medication and be okay. As far as I know, he's no longer depressed and he's no longer on medication.

Surely, even if you are depressed and don't care so much about your well being, wouldn't you still be dimly aware that there are treatments you can try that can change the way you feel completely before you try the terminal solution?

No way! I didn't even know I was depressed until people actually pointed it out to me, including a counselor. I was so embarrassed and it took me a long time to acknowledge it, let alone deal with it. When I was depressed the last thing I was thinking of was a rational though such as, " oh medication will be what I need, or maybe I should talk to a professional?". The thoughts I was thinking was, "would I die if I overdosed on codeine and sleeping pills?". "when will I stop being such a loser and get out of bed","why am I not normal like everyone else", "I hate feeling like this!", "everyone is judging me and must thinking I'm faking being sick and am unreliable".