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Old 05-06-2011, 06:15 AM   #411 (permalink)
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Tuna, how would you feel if Pakistan sent a squad of Assassins into america, with no warning, assaulted a residence in a large city and then told you "It's ok, we were killing a terrorist!". The reason America is so scrutinised is that time and time again, it's America who seems to think "to hell with international protocol, we're just gonna do what we like", because it's America that has started (yes, started!) the most wars recently with countries in the Middle East, because it always seems to be America who have ties to the bloody dictators around the world.

Your government has, like it or not, made an incalculable number of atrocious decisions over the last 50 years that have had massive destructive effects on countries worldwide, and there never seems to be any resulting change in foreign policy. That's why America is always under such scrutiny, because everyone's always on their toes waiting for you to manage your next major ****-up, and I'm sorry if that offends your Patriotism, but if you're going to claim that half the world is out to get you because that's how it seems to you, then you can damn well accept the fact that pretty much all of the rest of the world sees America as either the playground bully who picks on whoever he likes or the bumbling idiot with a big gun and no concept of control.

What annoys me is that I know there are many, many intelligent Americans. I talk to some of them on a regular basis, and I've happily worked beside them on a number of issues. But it seems like for every intelligent person there is in America, there's another that will, given any opportunity shout "USA, USA, USA! YEAH! WE MANAGED TO KILL ONE GUY WHO WAS ARGUABLY NOT EVEN THE MAIN ORGANISATIONAL MASTERMIND BEHIND THE ONLY SUCCESSFUL BOMBING OF OUR COUNTRY AND WAS ONLY REALLY A FIGUREHEAD WHO HAS BEEN ONTHE RUN FOR TEN YEARS BUT WHO CARES WE GOT HIM YEAH!". There's also the fact that whenever the question of National Pride is at stake, the majority of the country turns into this...mob, with only one agenda: "Winning".

In Summary: America, Get a Grip.
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:43 AM   #412 (permalink)
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I like how its only America thats got one ******* for every civilized person. You know, you sent us these ****ing people. Its not our fault the English tried to starve your race. If I were a lesser man, I'd make a comment to the effect that your countries avoided major foreign policy f-ups because they've been too drunk to function.

But I won't do that because I've got Irish ancestry. So if you think I'm an *******, you can blame Ireland.

America isn't the worlds greatest everything. We've got problems, and we've got people in elected office looking to shut down a lot of our foreign interventions. Thanks to the Paul family, Blowback is now being discussed in Presidential Primaries. The MIC is being actually removed.

What I still don't get from the non-American dissenters here is why you insist on making this an issue about how ALL of america is out in the street celebrating murder. Don't you think that sounds a little ridiculous? First of all, its mostly college kids who are notoriously dopes to begin with. Secondly, our government, who according to our friend here is such a **** up, handled this situation with dignity and class.

If this is, in fact, just anti-american sentiment, I'm a little more than disappointed in the posters here. I joined these boards as President Bush was reelected and I thought it was the height of AA fervor. Unfortunately it wasn't a fervor, it was a general bigotry it seems, and I think its pretty said to paint a nation of millions with the same brush.
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:47 AM   #413 (permalink)
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Also, appearently he doesn't understand that NATO which includes troops from his country as well was also involved in most of the current wars.

but nooo it's only the stupid americans running around being bullies.
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IMO I don't know jack-**** though so don't listen to me.
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The problem is that most police officers in America are psychopaths.
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Old 05-06-2011, 11:58 AM   #414 (permalink)
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@Big3: I will always maintain hope for America (:P). I was impressed by how the Libya situation was handled, because you took an equal part in that and were clever about the way it was organised in that it didn't seem like "yet another American invasion". As I said, I have respect for almost all of the American people I have met and talked to, and I realise that every country has its fair share of idiots, but it is forever being proven that more American people seem to be in that category, proportionately, than the rest of the world. I apologise if that's being unfair, but it's just the way the country seems to the rest of the world. I'm happy, and relieved, to hear that the measures you are listing are being taken to account, it's the kind of thing that I would always hope to hear about, and it's a shame that we don't hear about it more often. I guess it just shows how I know less than I think I do, but in another way, it outlines how little of the good stuff ever reaches our ears from America, which brings me to my next point.

We get these broadcasts of people making ridiculously bigoted and self-obsessed comments, and we get broadcasts from Television Networks like Fox News which, while I realise many people think is a joke, is still on the air. We can't help having a rather negative view of a country that seems to revel, on a national scale, in its lack of knowledge and understanding of other communities. And I truly do apologise and feel sorry for those of you who don't, because you have to deal with that **** and the consequences first hand. I also apologise if I lash out with exaggerations, but sometimes it's hard not to get frustrated when some of those you are arguing with seem dead set on solidifying this negative image.

Regarding Ireland being a bunch of drunks, while it's a hah hah stereotype, we don't prove it on a daily basis (any more). Besides, I don't think that the mentality is a result of lineage, I think it's the result of Extreme Nationalism (taken far too far) and also a very healthy dose of [s]over[/s] self-confidence.

P.S: Please note that I have said "seems" a lot in the above post. I don't mean to say that this is exactly the way it is, it's just the way it looks from the outside.



@DJ: Is it your new favourite thing to just respond sarcastically to some post or comment that you feel obliged to answer, but have nothing actually interesting to say? Ireland isn't a Member of NATO, as we are a Neutral State. The Irish Army is a Peacekeeping force, which you might know if you knew more about it, which has taken part in many UN Peacekeeping missions in the past, but has never taken part in any offensive actions. This just typifies my point about assumptions, arrogance and ignorance. Congratulations.
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Old 05-06-2011, 12:22 PM   #415 (permalink)
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That's so true, it has become some kind of sport to see which other country can hate us the most and it doesn't matter what the hell we do.

We will forever be in the wrong while every other countries sits up on their high glass horse
I think it's true that the rest of the world never sees american international activity as positive (even if they were giving foregin aid they would probably just be seen as spreading their influence and being imperialist or something)

BUT - lots of countries are scrutinized. I actually criticize my own governments foreign aid policy :P I don't think any country is perfect. USA rightfully get the most criticism because they have so much power to create change, and the rest of the world is really worried that they'll screw it up as they certainly have before (but maybe not always).
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Old 05-06-2011, 12:35 PM   #416 (permalink)
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@Big3:
We get these broadcasts of people making ridiculously bigoted and self-obsessed comments, and we get broadcasts from Television Networks like Fox News which, while I realise many people think is a joke, is still on the air. We can't help having a rather negative view of a country that seems to revel, on a national scale, in its lack of knowledge and understanding of other communities. And I truly do apologise and feel sorry for those of you who don't, because you have to deal with that **** and the consequences first hand. I also apologise if I lash out with exaggerations, but sometimes it's hard not to get frustrated when some of those you are arguing with seem dead set on solidifying this negative image.
Then I'd worry about having a Fox News of your own. If those are the only images you see of us, I'd almost be inclined to ask if what sells on the Irish News is Anti-American sentiment. As for Fox, they've been under extreme pressure since 2005 and are being forced, due to a failure of sponsorship, to be more reasonable. What passives for Conservatism these days has driven itself off of the rails for

A. Fear of a black man &

B. Morons pandering to that fear, without actually having it. Sounds odd, but they've out crazied all but the fringiest outliers and have dismissed most of the middle of the American political spectrum. All because they don't know what the real concerns of these people are (as unfounded as they are).

America has a lot more virtue than anyone really gives us. Americans, as a group, might not know a whole lot about other cultures, but I don't think its fashionable to make wild, stereotypical assumptions about other groups anymore. I don't feel we're often returned the same courtesy. We also don't have a culture. An American isn't as easily identifiable as say, a Frenchman, or a German. This is one of the reasons its easier to have stereotypes about us. As a nation, we're generally anti-unification. Blame England, or Hitler, or our political system, but Massachusetts isn't the same as Georgia, or Oregon, or Arizona.

In our early days, guys like Thomas Jefferson said phrases like "My country" and meant Virginia. Even though we don't say that anymore, we still conduct business that way. Phrases like "Real America" or "Where I come from" still show massive fault lines in the American psyche and landscape. We're as distant a people as one Federal System has ever seen.

All I ask is that its kept in mind when discussing "Americans."
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Old 05-06-2011, 12:47 PM   #417 (permalink)
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Ah, fair enough, I'll keep that in mind. It's interesting to see how little we can know of one another even in a situation between staunch allies. It only goes to highlight how little we must know about those who aren't.

I do think you're right to a certain extent about anti-american sentiment selling. It's not that we dislike America as a country, but I think a lot of people get a kick out of hearing about "America's latest failure", which probably gets focused on far more than it should be. We would rarely hear about "America's latest achievement" in contrast, but that said, finding anything cheerful on Irish news is a challenge, they're generally too busy giving out about our own government...

Regarding the anti-unification sentiment, to be honest, I don't blame anyone who feels that way. Given your explanation of how different the people in different states are, it'd be a disaster to try and unify that any further than it already is. The fact that the States are so often split almost perfectly over Conservative/Democrat (do correct me if I'm wrong here btw), and that most States seem to have a side that they will always vote for just emphasises that "two camps" or hell, 50 camps, mentality.

Besides, if there's one thing I know, it's that one should be proud of local culture and identity. I'd hate to see Europe amalgamated into one big European States, because I'd fear that we'd all lose our separate identities in the process.
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Old 05-06-2011, 02:12 PM   #418 (permalink)
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@DJ: Is it your new favourite thing to just respond sarcastically to some post or comment that you feel obliged to answer, but have nothing actually interesting to say? Ireland isn't a Member of NATO, as we are a Neutral State. The Irish Army is a Peacekeeping force, which you might know if you knew more about it, which has taken part in many UN Peacekeeping missions in the past, but has never taken part in any offensive actions. This just typifies my point about assumptions, arrogance and ignorance. Congratulations.
Also to explain the sarcasm, sorry about that. I'm used to dealing with a lot of anti American sentiments from Americans all the time and it just bugs me. There are a lot of great things about America and people take their simple rights for granted all of time. Whenever I'm met with anti-American sentiment my sarcasm usually comes out in full force.

I have no problem being proved wrong. Thank you for the education. I'm always willing to learn more.

I was under the impression that Ireland was part of the United Kingdoms and the UK is definitely a member of NATO.

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Originally Posted by MoonlitSunshine View Post

Besides, if there's one thing I know, it's that one should be proud of local culture and identity. I'd hate to see Europe amalgamated into one big European States, because I'd fear that we'd all lose our separate identities in the process.
You wouldn't lose your separate identities because as Big3 mentioned above they will still exist. In America, you can pick people out by the region of the states they are from by their slight accents or certain words that they use. Some people are so good that they can actually tell the state someone is from by that.
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Fame, fortune, power, titties. People say these are the most crucial things in life, but you can have a pocket full o' gold and it doesn't mean sh*t if you don't have someone to share that gold with. Seems simple. Yet it's an important lesson to learn. Even lone wolves run in packs sometimes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RoxyRollah View Post
IMO I don't know jack-**** though so don't listen to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco Pepe Kalle View Post
The problem is that most police officers in America are psychopaths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batlord View Post
You're a terrible dictionary.

Last edited by djchameleon; 05-06-2011 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 05-06-2011, 02:23 PM   #419 (permalink)
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I thought that was the president until 1:05 when he started rapping.
They all look the same to me too

...
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Old 05-06-2011, 02:34 PM   #420 (permalink)
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And I should have realised that you'd take everything I said way out of proportion. Thanks for shoving some words in my mouth. Firstly, did I ever say that I thought America had no morals? The Iraqi comment was more in response to Tuna, who I was also talking to, about how the actions of the USA had also resulted in the loss of thousands of lives. Even if I did believe that America has no morals, I am a forgiving person, I believe that people can change. If someone does something wrong the first time, and then does it right the second time, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. If they however do something wrong, and then proceed to do it again, it's only going to solidify my belief.




So basically, if it's too much effort to do the right thing, you're not bothered? Great. Secondly, OBL was nowhere near the greatest thread to the USA. He was an isolated figurehead who no longer dealt with the running of Al-Qaeda. If he had been taken out ten years ago, I'd agree, but leadership of the organisation had been passed on in all but name long ago. Killing him isn't going to make the slightest difference to their ability or organisation. Thirdly, you obviously don't think it was in any way necessary to capture him alive. That's fine, I can understand the reasoning, but don't try and make up bullshit excuses as to why it would have been impossible. I'm pretty sure SEALs are fully trained in capture missions as well as kill missions, and OBL was a sick, old politician. Not exactly the type of person renowned for their martial prowess.




I have one question for you: What possible reason would the Pakistani government have for hiding a mass murdering terrorist?
I didn't put a single word in our mouth. I saw right through your use of rhetoric. You questioned whether the USA should make some effort to raise their morals above those of Al Quaeda. AKA you were implying they were the same, so don't act like you were doing anything other than exactly that.

In response to "So basically, if it's too much effort to do the right thing, you're not bothered?" I thought I already made it clear that I have no moral hangups with leaving Bin Laden dead. I'd rather see him dead than in cuffs and a trial seems completely pointless to me.

Bullshit excuses??? Dude, pull your head of your ass for real. You don't think trying to capture him alive was more dangerous than just killing him? His followers willingly sacrifice their own lives to kill Americans, and you think it's unreasonable to think that he would do the same? They didn't know what kind of weapons he had or if he had prepared for something like this happening.

As for Pakistan, I don't know why they hid Bin Laden. Maybe money, I'm not sure. But I am positive that they did. He was within walking distance from their West Point equivalent, living in a specially constructed mansion in a small town... If anyone doesn't think that Bin Laden was being helped by the Pakistanis, then I think you are moronic. Coincidence that Pakistan has been infatically denying OBL was in their country for years? Or that they suggested he was probably dead years ago? I think not. Let's use our brains here and put 2 and 2 together and see what we come up with.




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So you're point is that they didn't come out and announce that they were hiding Osama, hate us, and want to killl us all?

And we don't have to want half the world to dislike us, it kind of seems the case no matter what we do. Kill a Worldwide operational terrorist, get backlash for shooting him unarmed, not alerting a country, etc.

I haven't seen an American act NOT scrutinized actually, even ones that seem positive in every aspect.
Yep, you are exactly right. A lot of foreigners hold an animosity ad negative attitude towards the USA. They might not be anti-American and hate America, and they might convince themselves that they have no animosity, but it's still there. It comes out at times like these. If any other country in the world found and killed the world's most wanted terrorist, the rest of the world would be bowing down to them and kissing their feet.

But it's America. So we've got to try and find faults with them. People are trying so incredibly hard to find something we did wrong here, it's ridiuclous.

Yeah, they killed a huge terror threat they have been searching for for years, but OMG LOOK HOW ARROGANT THEY ARE AT CELEBRATING. Celebrating the death of one of the most wanted men on the planet? How arrogant of them!

HOW INCONSIDERATE, THEY WENT INTO PAKISTAN WITHOUT EVEN TELLING THEM!! They didn't even tell the country that was hiding Bin Laden that they were coming for him. That's not fair! UA didn't even give Pakistan a chance to warn Bin Laden!

Last edited by Dirty; 05-06-2011 at 03:02 PM.
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