Americas Prison Systems

~~Farfisa~~ · 06-22-2011, 12:27 PM

Using violence in an attempt to rehabilitate someone only instills fear and hate into someone. Just because a person does wrong that doesn't mean they should be treated as trash or garbage. Prison is supposed to be a place to reflect on one's actions, but it seems like more people who are incarcerated are more worried about their well-being than reflecting on past crimes.

Bloozcrooz · 06-22-2011, 12:48 PM

Picture this "The Virgin" gets drunk one night during an evening of hardcore dancing to Beyonce and gets arrested for P.I.. Thrown in the local county jail with an inmate who's in transition to somewhere else in the jail (because not all jails segragate by degree of offense..especially when they are overcrowded) or another jail or just awaiting trial. Only he's been getting beaten by gaurds on a daily basis and is looking to channel some of that anger out onto someone else. He comes from a broken home and was raised in poverty up until he was a lil older. Started making money the only way he really knew how, because he wasnt given all the oppurtunities at a education that most are but he wants to try an provide for his GF and child (that he is missing..cause just cause someone is locked up doesnt mean they are emotionless).
He also happens to be about 6'4 and 220 pounds of muscle cause all he's been doing for the last year is eating and doing as many pushups and crunches and squats that he possibly can to block out the regret he has for the mistake he made, the pain of being beaten every day, avoiding gang rape in the shower, getting shanked, and wondering and worring about his family every day, along with a million other daily stresses that you have in jail or prison. He had never been in trouble in the past for any kind of violent crime or had a mean bone in his body. Till he was encarcerated and beaten daily for days,months,years.

Now...do you have the same outlook all alone in a cell with this guy as you do typing your tough guy attitude on an internet forum about his situation? Or would you rather that maybe different measures had been taken to rehabilitate this man who was'nt an angry out for blood convict until he went to jail/prison.

djchameleon · 06-22-2011, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma

our society should do more to prevent the things that causes people to grow into such criminals (broken families, terrible education, etc etc) but of course, that'd be too much work for those in power, amirite.

I agree with you there but it's not that it's too much work. It's the fact that the prison systems are big business and they want them running the way that they currently are because it's profitable.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 06-22-2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloozcrooz

Picture this "The Virgin" gets drunk one night during an evening of hardcore dancing to Beyonce and gets arrested for P.I.. Thrown in the local county jail with an inmate who's in transition to somewhere else in the jail (because not all jails segragate by degree of offense..especially when they are overcrowded) or another jail or just awaiting trial. Only he's been getting beaten by gaurds on a daily basis and is looking to channel some of that anger out onto someone else. He comes from a broken home and was raised in poverty up until he was a lil older. Started making money the only way he really knew how, because he wasnt given all the oppurtunities at a education that most are but he wants to try an provide for his GF and child (that he is missing..cause just cause someone is locked up doesnt mean they are emotionless).
He also happens to be about 6'4 and 220 pounds of muscle cause all he's been doing for the last year is eating and doing as many pushups and crunches and squats that he possibly can to block out the regret he has for the mistake he made, the pain of being beaten every day, avoiding gang rape in the shower, getting shanked, and wondering and worring about his family every day, along with a million other daily stresses that you have in jail or prison. He had never been in trouble in the past for any kind of violent crime or had a mean bone in his body. Till he was encarcerated and beaten daily for days,months,years.

Now...do you have the same outlook all alone in a cell with this guy as you do typing your tough guy attitude on an internet forum about his situation? Or would you rather that maybe different measures had been taken to rehabilitate this man who was'nt an angry out for blood convict until he went to jail/prison.

lmao!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

I agree with you there but it's not that it's too much work. It's the fact that the prison systems are big business and they want them running the way that they currently are because it's profitable.

More time/effort = more money being spent, so obviously.

~~[MERIT]~~ · 06-22-2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma

drug addiction is an illness.

No, it is a lack of willpower, not an illness. You dont catch alcoholism by being around alcoholics. You aren't predisposed to be a heroin addict.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 06-22-2011, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oojay

No, it is a lack of willpower, not an illness. You dont catch alcoholism by being around alcoholics. You aren't predisposed to be a heroin addict.

Please state your evidence in facts rather than biased and ignorant opinions.

~~[MERIT]~~ · 06-22-2011, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma

Please state your evidence in facts rather than biased and ignorant opinions.

You made the original claim, thus putting the burden of proof on yourself, but here you go.

"Illness" is a state of poor health. "Drug Addiction" is a dependence on drugs. One can be addicted to drugs but still be in a state of good health. While the side effects of drug addiction may result in an illness, the two are not mutually exclusive.

Therefore, drug addiction is not an illness. Pretty simple. Unbiased. Not ignorant. Not opiniated.

Bloozcrooz · 06-22-2011, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma

lmao!!!

More time/effort = more money being spent, so obviously.

That vid response was priceless!!!

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 06-22-2011, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oojay

"Illness" is a state of poor health. "Drug Addiction" is a dependence on drugs. One can be addicted to drugs but still be in a state of good health.

Lol what? An addiction is termed an illness because it precisely is a state of poor health. People who are addicted to drugs suffer physiological symptoms as well as emotional and mental, as habitual drug use damages everything from your levels of serotonin and/or dopamine, your respiratory system, your kidneys, and your heart. This isn't a one time usage thing, an addiction includes all of these things and it is not possible to be in "good health" being addicted to drugs. Drug addicts use excessive amounts to achieve a high, overpowering the aforementioned pleasure centers. And as you previously, so graciously said, a lack of "willpower" is a cause, would that not also be a part of poor health? Ever hear of something called depression? I'd like to know in what world would someone consider the possibility that a drug addict could still be in a "state of good health". Marked signs of drug addicts usually include visible markers of POOR HEALTH.

Quote:

While the side effects of drug addiction may result in an illness, the two are not mutually exclusive.

Therefore, drug addiction is not an illness. Pretty simple. Unbiased. Not ignorant. Not opiniated.

Yes, they are. And yes, it is.

See here

Quote:

Individuals who suffer from addiction often have one or more accompanying medical issues, including lung and cardiovascular disease, stroke, cancer, and mental disorders. Imaging scans, chest X-rays, and blood tests show the damaging effects of drug abuse throughout the body. For example, tests show that tobacco smoke causes cancer of the mouth, throat, larynx, blood, lungs, stomach, pancreas, kidney, bladder, and cervix.19 In addition, some drugs of abuse, such as inhalants, are toxic to nerve cells and may damage or destroy them either in the brain or the peripheral nervous system.

"Drugs, Brains, and Behavior - The Science of Addiction" - Addiction and Health

~~[MERIT]~~ · 06-22-2011, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma

Lol what? An addiction is termed an illness because it precisely is a state of poor health.

No. You could be addicted to anything, but that doesn't mean that it would put you in a poor state of health, either mental or physical. When speaking specifically of a drug addiction, it is sometimes the case that the drug use puts you in a poor state of health (i.e. the drug use GIVES you an illness), but that is a side-effect of the drug use. Side-effects aren't causal, they are resultant. Addiction is something that could possibly LEAD to an illness, but not an illness in and of itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma

People who are addicted to drugs suffer physiological symptoms as well as emotional and mental, as habitual drug use damages everything from your levels of serotonin and/or dopamine, your respiratory system, your kidneys, and your heart. This isn't a one time usage thing, an addiction includes all of these things and it is not possible to be in "good health" being addicted to drugs. Drug addicts use excessive amounts to achieve a high, overpowering the aforementioned pleasure centers.

Everything you're saying here corresponds directly to what I said above. All of these illnesses (damage to the body and mind) are a RESULT of drug use. Someone does not have to have an illness (i.e. be in a poor state of health) to start using drugs. But once they lose their willpower, and let the drugs take control, they start using more and more, which inturn damages their body and puts them in a poor state of health. If they had enough willpower to use drugs responsibly (or preferably not at all), then they would not become addicted, and not put themselves in a poor state of health.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma

And as you previously, so graciously said, a lack of "willpower" is a cause, would that not also be a part of poor health?

I don't consider a lack of willpower to be a poor state of health, either mental or physical. It may be a mental shortcoming, but that in and of iteself does not relegate someone to being in a poor state of health.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma

Ever hear of something called depression?

Yes, I have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma

I'd like to know in what world would someone consider the possibility that a drug addict could still be in a "state of good health". Marked signs of drug addicts usually include visible markers of POOR HEALTH.

Like I said numerous times, the poor health (illness) is a possible SIDE-EFFECT of drug use (addiction). Something cannot be both the cause and effect. Addiction is the cause. Illness is the possible effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma

Yes, they are. And yes, it is.

No, they are not mutually exclusive. One is possible without the other. Someone can have an illness without being addicted to drugs. And someone can be addicted to drugs without becoming ill from it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma

See here

Individuals who suffer from addiction often have one or more accompanying medical issues, including lung and cardiovascular disease, stroke, cancer, and mental disorders. Imaging scans, chest X-rays, and blood tests show the damaging effects of drug abuse throughout the body. For example, tests show that tobacco smoke causes cancer of the mouth, throat, larynx, blood, lungs, stomach, pancreas, kidney, bladder, and cervix.19 In addition, some drugs of abuse, such as inhalants, are toxic to nerve cells and may damage or destroy them either in the brain or the peripheral nervous system.

This agrees completely with everything that I've said.

06-22-2011, 12:27 PM	#31 (permalink)
~~Farfisa~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,773	Using violence in an attempt to rehabilitate someone only instills fear and hate into someone. Just because a person does wrong that doesn't mean they should be treated as trash or garbage. Prison is supposed to be a place to reflect on one's actions, but it seems like more people who are incarcerated are more worried about their well-being than reflecting on past crimes.