mr dave

I tend to be a pretty big skeptic to the supernatural and while I don't necessarily believe in the Astral Plane as a separate physical realm of existence I do believe in OBEs to a relative extent.

I do NOT at all buy into the idea that drug use / abuse opens the mind to true spiritual development. It might help the conscious mind adapt to weirder ideas and open yourself up to different theories etc but as far as my personal experiences go with meditation (transcendental) and attempts at freeing my mind from my body - sobriety is key. Normally that style of meditation is very relaxing and the most substantial effects I've felt is the full extent of the rush and flow of blood throughout my body with every heartbeat (though it's always been an incredibly fleeting event).

For myself the most significant experiences I've had with the practice came about during a period around 10 years ago when I had stopped smoking pot and found I had to relax myself a lot more than 'normal' in order to fall asleep, hence the meditation. After a few weeks I started noticing that my mind was waking up before my body which definitely lends itself to the whole idea of lucid waking dreams. But then I started noticing odd things, like I could clearly see my room from my bed even though it felt like my eyes were still shut (there's also the fact that I NEED glasses to see anything clearly and I always take them off before getting into bed).

My theory on the matter is that due to practicing the meditation in bed while I was trying to fall asleep my body was falling into a transcendental state (similar to how you mention having a hard time moving your hands with the binaural beat experiment) but then my mind would fall asleep, come morning my body was still in a trance which allowed my mind the freedom to awake and operate independently.

Either way, after a few more mornings of seeing my room before I opened my eyes I tried 'stepping out' for lack of a better term. When I woke up being able to see the room clearly (which I normally am not able to do) I choose to try getting out of bed (which kind of felt like floating upward in a pool but without the resistance of water), then I started 'walking' out of the room, and while still consciously recognizing that my body should still technically be sleeping in my bed I tried turning around. And everything broke. The clarity of my vision was replaced with a bright light but an intense feeling of dread and it took significant mental effort to wake my body after that point. I've never managed to experience something like that since.

I realize this is entirely a single shot anecdotal piece of evidence but where it directly happened to me I can't explain it as anything other than having experienced the feeling of inhabiting my soul independently of my body.

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SIRIUSB

Not that I advocate drug use, but either way you cut it, whether drug influenced or Excitatory gnosis (meditation for instance), you are inducing Trance, which is an altered state of consciousness and can be used to liberate the psyche/unconsciousness towards experiences not associated with the Objective Universe (material plane).

someonecompletelyrandom

Wow, thanks for that experience mr. dave! That's really interesting, as I've previously heard that viewing your body or looking back on it once you "leave" it, in whatever sense that implies, will rip you out of your experience. Seems this happened to you. I'll have to remember not to do that if I ever manage to have one, which given my current progress, doesn't seem as unlikely as it did just this morning. I've only really started meditating recently and I've been really impressed with the benefits (both practical like relaxation and experimental like astral projection.)

Mrd00d

Well the question might turn to "What are we, what is our mind, and where are we... What is reality?" or such. I mean, they say our five senses only account for but a percent (or was it 10%) of what reality is. We can not begin to comprehend. What hallucinogens like DMT, LSD, mushrooms, and salvia seem to do, amongst other things, is enable us to see more of reality than we typically can. That's the way it appears, but it's really what you say. The chemicals. What did Bill Hicks say

That quote has always stood with me since I was a teenager and heard it in a Tool song, sampled at the beginning of Third Eye I believe and that's pretty much what I found taking these kinds of things. Whether that's because that's what I wanted to see so that's what I saw or whether that's the way it is is not debatable, but I feel right about it.


When I spotted my best friend on his salvia trip, he laid in his bed and I was sitting at the computer desk a few feet away, we had Tool going, and as it set in he drifted away from the bed, looking down upon me and him in his bed. The walls came down, and fell away and he drifted farther out until it was hard to make us out, and continued to fly off into space, landing on the planet of the Ewoks from Star Wars Return of the Jedi and watched Tool play a vivid performance of the song Pu**** for him and the Ewoks.

Point being, he was able to see himself from outside his body and it didn't break his trip.

My (same) best friend also had this kind of experience as well, also the one Conan described with the not being able to move and starting to vibrate but he freaked out and still is a bit scared of that feeling.

He also has success in lucid dreaming. He loves to sleep because his dreams are like his personal playground/Matrix. He realizes he's dreaming often and Neo's out of there and flies around. He used to tell me the most amazing dreams. I'm envious. I don't see him fibbing about this stuff either. It's all fantasticly hard to believe, but I trust him completely.

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someonecompletelyrandom

That's interesting, and your friend must be a pretty awesome guy for his subconscious to project attending a Tool concert on the forest moon of Endor.

Mrd00d

Yeah I love that mofo.

Tool's his favorite band and we were listening to Tool when he was tripping. And Star Wars was one of his favorites growing up. It boggles my mind the way his mind works. And how he reacts compared to how I react.

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mr dave

It's all good. Good luck with further experiments into your consciousness haha The main reason I tried looking back onto myself was because I remember a story from one of my Aunt's who claimed to have an OBE years ago where she passed out on a couch then woke up floating near the ceiling of the room and looking down onto herself. She considered it one of the scariest things she'd ever felt (especially where she wasn't meditating or trying to induce any sort of supernatural experience - she just wanted to sleep).

Don't really know what else to add to this thread besides the fact that I'm very much in agreement with Tore's position on drugs in regards to the matter, especially in regards to how people tend to misinterpret the effect of feeling wise with actually being wise. I'm of the belief that there's a significant difference in putting yourself into a trance through mental exercise vs using drugs to induce the same trance and that difference also applies to the value and overall growth involved in the matter. If you can't do it without the crutch (drugs) then you really can't do it on your own.

I don't want to come across like an anti-drug PSA, I still smoke weed, whatever. Do what you like, but I'll always take the person who can experience the weird stuff sober more seriously than the druggie going on and on about their latest 'mind blowing' voyage into the unknown.

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ThePhanastasio

My mother is a very interesting lady, and she claims that she frequently has OBEs. One of my more vivid memories of something she's informed me is when I was about 16 talking about Astral Projection, she said, "All you have to do is wait until you vibrate, and you can go anywhere."

I'm not COMPLETELY closed off to the idea of OBEs not being legitimately leaving your body, but that's never been the perception I've had. I do respect my mother a lot, and she's extremely intelligent, but I do think that we've had similar experiences, albeit different perceptions.

I seriously don't know.

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someonecompletelyrandom

I guess I'm really the same way, although its likely because I'm just undecided as I've yet to fully experience it. I can say that those vibrations freaked me out, and as I was still skeptical beforehand they came as quite a shock.

I'm trying again either tomorrow morning or this weekend, might even chew a little salvia (although to be positive I'm not just feeling the effects of a drug I'd like to try it sober firstly). I'll definitely report anything if there is anything to report.

Mrd00d

What kind of salvia do you chew on? I haven't done salvia since '07. Back then they only had one brand, which was a powder extract, with different potencies from 5x to 50x and there was an XXX heh heh. Last time I went to a headshop they were selling some different 'brand' that had a color coded system. But it was still black powdery stuff.

And the only way to do salvia (with this stuff) the correct way was to load it in the bong and hit it with a torch (regular lighters don't heat it up enough), and to hold it for 20-30 seconds until "vision begins to vibrate or blur", where upon exhalation the effects take hold.

That was the only way I'm familiar with. What's up with chewing? Is this different stuff, or do you not even want the full effects?

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