Music Banter

Go Back   Music Banter > Community Center > The Lounge > Current Events, Philosophy, & Religion
Register Blogging Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Welcome to Music Banter Forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with over 70,000 other registered members. After you create your free account, you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 1,100,000 posts.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-08-2012, 03:17 PM   #31 (permalink)
Mate, Spawn & Die
 
Janszoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna View Post
Not name only, it wasn't very prevalent, but it was still legal. I think that qualifies it as a slave state. Kentucky was part of the border states, but sided with the Union after the Confederate army moved into their state.
I've read differently but you may be right. The point, though, is that slavery was the major issue that caused the war. The fracture may not have been a perfectly clean line, but it's no coincidence that happened where it happened.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by P A N View Post
i'm not gonna spend my life on music banter trying to convince people the earth is flat.
A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die


last.fm
Janszoon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 03:21 PM   #32 (permalink)
Music Addict
 
midnight rain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,662
Default

I also think that it should be noted that Abraham Lincoln made it clear he wasn't out to abolish slavery when he was first elected, lending even more credence to the fact that the South was betraying our Union of States. It was only around 1863 I believe that he started to adopt the idea of abolishing it completely.
__________________
last.fm
midnight rain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 03:47 PM   #33 (permalink)
Music Addict
 
Abstract's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: The Frontier
Posts: 60
Default

This a very shady subject to this day, but I guess I will chime in. I am Southern for sure, from Alabama to be exact, and I definitely have a strong attachment to my home. The Civil War was a terrible event, but it happened. My opinion is this, I would have personally fought for the Confederates, but NOT because I support slavery or succession, but because the South is my home and I refuse to burn the houses of my neighbors and my own. Many people who fought for the CSA wanted to protect their homes, so the idea that ALL people who fought for the CSA believed in slavery is incorrect. The figures actually show that most Southerners were extremely poor and didn't own slaves, it was mostly the upper class plantation owners who did. But, I believe the outcome of the war was needed, the Union did need to win to bring the country back together, and to help answer the slavery issue that had been avoided for so many years.
Abstract is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 03:59 PM   #34 (permalink)
Horribly Creative
 
Unknown Soldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London, The Big Smoke
Posts: 8,220
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna View Post
The victim of what exactly? Oh poor South they don't get to keep their slave labor anymore, LOL. I think you need another history lesson, chief.

They were the underdog, but plenty of wars have been won by the sides with the smaller army.
The victim as in they were the defenders of their territory. I don't mean victim as in their cause was just or anything.
Unknown Soldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 04:02 PM   #35 (permalink)
Music Addict
 
midnight rain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,662
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier View Post
The victim as in they were the defenders of their territory. I don't mean victim as in their cause was just or anything.
Ah ok I see. That's not entirely the case though, while what you say is true, the only reason it was that way was becasue they were entirely unsuccessful in their attempts to take the North's territory. See Gettysburg, for example.
__________________
last.fm
midnight rain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 05:43 PM   #36 (permalink)
Horribly Creative
 
Unknown Soldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London, The Big Smoke
Posts: 8,220
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna View Post
Ah ok I see. That's not entirely the case though, while what you say is true, the only reason it was that way was becasue they were entirely unsuccessful in their attempts to take the North's territory. See Gettysburg, for example.
I disagree. For the Union to win, what they had to do was invade southern territory and give the rebels a beating they couldn't recover from, they did this eventually but it took them 4 years to achieve it. For the Rebels to win, all they had to do was defend their territory and wear the Union down in their own territory, for this reason the majority of the battles were fought in Virginia and Tennessee, and the Mississippi river was seen as the key to war as well (rebel territory)

The Confederacy actually came so close to achieving victory and their aims on several occasions, they had consistently whipped the Union armies especially in the Eastern Theater (Virginia etc) on several occasions, but made the mistake of then invading northern territory (Pennsylvania) the Confederacy were great at fighting a defensive campaign, but not so good at fighting an offensive one which proved their undoing.

The million dollar question is, did the Union win the war or the Confederacy lose it?

Last edited by Unknown Soldier; 02-08-2012 at 05:52 PM.
Unknown Soldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 11:05 AM   #37 (permalink)
Music Addict
 
hip hop bunny hop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,367
Default



Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier View Post
I always thought the war was about self determination of the slave states and slavery just happened to be one of the issues involved. I know a number of slave states actually stayed with the Union and other like Kentucky and Kansas etc were undecided.
Kansas was a free state; hence the term "border wars" for the games between Missouri University & Kansas University, as well as the KU mascot the "Jayhawk"...



All the light blue were states that had slavery but ended up going with the Union for one reason or another. This is also how we got West Virginia....

Anyways, my $0.02:

1) Slavery was the issue at hand in a round about way. The way I'd put it is when you've a housemate who never does the dishes, and then one day you come home and the entire place smells like catbox, and you flip your ****, and you include something along the lines of "....AND YOU NEVER DO THE GODDAMNED DISHES!"

2) LINK <---Marx actually has some interesting things to say on the Civil War, and - of course - this relates to Economics.

3) Wars should be fought only for concrete material concerns, and I'm very skeptical of the notion any war carried out for "humanitarian reasons" it claimed.

4) I don't understand why any one who'd like Whites to retain majority status in the USA would support the demographic catastrophe that was slavery.
__________________
Have mercy on the poor.
hip hop bunny hop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 12:24 PM   #38 (permalink)
.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,507
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abstract View Post
This a very shady subject to this day, but I guess I will chime in. I am Southern for sure, from Alabama to be exact, and I definitely have a strong attachment to my home. The Civil War was a terrible event, but it happened. My opinion is this, I would have personally fought for the Confederates, but NOT because I support slavery or succession, but because the South is my home and I refuse to burn the houses of my neighbors and my own. Many people who fought for the CSA wanted to protect their homes, so the idea that ALL people who fought for the CSA believed in slavery is incorrect. The figures actually show that most Southerners were extremely poor and didn't own slaves, it was mostly the upper class plantation owners who did. But, I believe the outcome of the war was needed, the Union did need to win to bring the country back together, and to help answer the slavery issue that had been avoided for so many years.
You hit the nail right on the head. This is quoted for truth.
someonecompletelyrandom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 11:17 AM   #39 (permalink)
Music Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,533
Default

When you consider the vast disparity between the perentage of slave-owning families in the south (royghly 5-10) and the percentage of non-slave owning, poor, and unskilled white laborers who fought in the Civil War it becomes quite evident that slavery was not that large of a factor in the beginnings of the war. I was always taught and tested on how the war specifically wasn't only about slavery but economic factors, cultural differences and a series of acts throughout the Midwest (Bleeding Kansas, Missouri Compromise, etc.) exacerbated the already tenuous relationship between the north and south.
anticipation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2012, 12:57 AM   #40 (permalink)
Do good.
 
Blarobbarg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 1,912
Default

To touch on a few of the topics in the thread...

The KKK was begun in Indiana. I have a coworker who lives very near the founding area, and he says there's all sorts of weird old KKK relics all over the place there.

In the urban areas of Louisville, my home, pretty much anybody with a Confederate flag pasted on their house or flying is a racist, and is letting everyone know it. Almost guaranteed. This is by far NOT how many, many southerners view it... I know, I've asked. Many southerners just view it as a symbol of independence. I disagree with using it in such a way because of its origins and how it makes African Americans (rightly) feel, but I digress. And yes, many of these same Confederate flag wavers DO love Lynyrnd Skynyrd.

I think more important than any of this is the fact that, thank God, the slaves were freed. That battle was won.

Unfortunately, there is literally more slaves today in the world than all of history. The sale of women is the third largest "business" in the world. So many think that after the Emancipation Proclamation there were no more slaves, ever, which is simply not true. Some of them are still here in the US.

If it isn't obvious already, this topic is VERY important to me. I cannot express in the English language how much I HATE slavery. The very idea of one man controlling another is simply sickening. I could literally go on for hours on this.

Instead, here's a link. This isn't who I primarily look at, but they have a ton of helpful info and slavery news. Take a look, please.

Call + Response
Blarobbarg is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads



2003-2019 Advameg, Inc.

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.2 ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.