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View Poll Results: Does free will exist?
Yes 19 63.33%
No 11 36.67%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-20-2012, 08:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Well this sounds like the same problem we're having in the eSports thread. What is free will?

I won't argue that people have a predilection toward acting one way or another. I'd agree. But the idea that we can't overthrow that just won't jive with my view of the world. I'm guessing I'm not understanding you here, but I assume you'd agree with that.

As an example. I like to sleep a lot more than I like to work. Still, I get up at 6 every day to go to work and forego an extra 3 hours of sleep. I'm designed to want to sleep, but by virture of my wanting to eat and having a Super Ego, I get up and I go to work.

Are we talking about different things?
You're mind recognizes the need to maintain a job in our society, that the negatives of sleeping in outweigh the postives. In your case, the Super Ego appears to outrank the need of sleep.

Just because we don't have free will, doesn't mean our thinking is primitive. We have a high enough intelligence to recognize cause and effect, and consequences of actions.
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You're mind recognizes the need to maintain a job in our society, that the negatives of sleeping in outweigh the postives. In your case, the Super Ego appears to outrank the need of sleep.

Just because we don't have free will, doesn't mean our thinking is primitive. We have a high enough intelligence to recognize cause and effect, and consequences of actions.
So where are you saying most people believe the perception of freewill exists when (as you say) it does not?
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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So where are you saying most people believe the perception of freewill exists when (as you say) it does not?
You aren't choosing to go to work over sleeping in, it's your natural response to the given conditions. The decision that you would sleep in, in this example, is only an illusion.
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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You aren't choosing to go to work over sleeping in, it's your natural response to the given conditions. The decision that you would sleep in, in this example, is only an illusion.
Right, sleeping in = no food and shelter.
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
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You aren't choosing to go to work over sleeping in, it's your natural response to the given conditions. The decision that you would sleep in, in this example, is only an illusion.
Why do I feel like this is the long sell toward the new Anarchists party?

Alright so what you're saying is, given the environmental concerns, people don't really have a choice.

If that's the case, you should tell us when it ends. If you're suggesting we don't have the choice as to whether or not we go to work, what about hanging out with friends?

Do we not have a choice there? Do we have free will at certain points but not others. Where do the illusions end? If they never end, why would I blow off certain people one day but not another? If the illusions do end, what accounts for our ability to lose free will?

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Plants have intelligence, do you think they choose to bloom?

Humans have intelligence, do you think we choose to work?

It's a similar line of thinking.
Plants have intelligence? What the hell does that mean?
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Why do I feel like this is the long sell toward the new Anarchists party?

Alright so what you're saying is, given the environmental concerns, people don't really have a choice.

If that's the case, you should tell us when it ends. If you're suggesting we don't have the choice as to whether or not we go to work, what about hanging out with friends?
Humans are a social species who seek one another out, build cities together, etc. It's in our nature to stay close with those with common ground.

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Do we not have a choice there? Do we have free will at certain points but not others. Where do the illusions end? If they never end, why would I blow off certain people one day but not another? If the illusions do end, what accounts for our ability to lose free will?
It's all situational. Feeling ill, tired of being around them, or any number of reasons.



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Plants have intelligence? What the hell does that mean?
Plant intelligence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:44 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Humans are a social species who seek one another out, build cities together, etc. It's in our nature to stay close with those with common ground.


It's all situational. Feeling ill, tired of being around them, or any number of reasons.
But people have worked through illness before. They've also decided "nah **** it, I'm calling in." You can't have both and say that people don't choose.



Plant intelligence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I was wrong about Anarchy. This is the upsell for Scientology.
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
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But people have worked through illness before. They've also decided "nah **** it, I'm calling in." You can't have both and say that people don't choose.
Lots of different outcomes factor into why humans react the way they do, and no one situation is the same, so it'd be unfair to pin one situation against the other when they have different setups going in.

Maybe a chronic skipper knew that they'd skipped work three days in a row already this month, and couldn't get away with skipping another.

^ It's a reaction based on logical thinking to produce what they believe to be the most desirable outcome.
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Just because we don't have free will, doesn't mean our thinking is primitive. We have a high enough intelligence to recognize cause and effect, and consequences of actions.
How can humans have intelligence yet no free will?
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:29 PM   #10 (permalink)
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How can humans have intelligence yet no free will?
Plants have intelligence, do you think they choose to bloom?

Humans have intelligence, do you think we choose to work?

It's a similar line of thinking.
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