U.S. Election Day — Obama vs. Romney

CanwllCorfe · 09-12-2012, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan

My feeling exactly. And as sad a state of affairs it is, voting independent is essentially throwing out your vote.

I'd say not voting is throwing out your vote. There's four candidates, not two. I can't bring myself to vote for Obama or Romney, when I know there's another one that I agree with more.

Freebase Dali · 09-12-2012, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FloydFlowrider

I don't really know if my english is good enough to completely get you right, Freebase, and I don't know what you mean by the democratic practices I seem to enjoy, but apparently they include freedom of speech.

And yes, I am pissed because I may not post a link to the greatest contribution to music I have ever made, while everybody else may have a whole array of links to their personal stuff. The sig will change again, if my account survives the next 24 hours, and it still includes the link.

Call me childish. I know, I am.
Call me fool. Guess you're right.
Do whatever you like, just don't treat me unfair.

I'm not trying to tread on your freedom or anything, but I'm just letting you know that this isn't a constitutionally protected forum... Nor does Obama run it, so the whole thing about fairness... might not really work here.

Perhaps you should read our rules so you have an idea of what OUR constitution means in this particular corner of the universe.

anticipation · 09-12-2012, 10:29 PM

If voting made any difference, they wouldn't let us do it.

Basically, the only sane choice is Jill Stein. Check this out son:

Quote:

Along the lines of President Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal solution to the Great Depression, Jill Stein advocates a "Green New Deal"[34] in which renewable energy jobs would be created to address climate change and environmental issues with the objective of employing "every American willing and able to work". Citing the research of Dr. Phillip Harvey, Professor of Law & Economics at Rutgers University, as evidence of the successful economic effects of the 1930s' New Deal projects, Stein would fund the plan with a 30% reduction in the U.S. military budget, returning US troops home, and increasing taxes on areas such as capital gains, offshore tax havens and multimillion dollar real estate. Stein plans on impacting what she sees as a growing convergence of environmental crises in water, soil, fisheries and forests, through the creation of sustainable infrastructure based in clean renewable energy generation and sustainable communities principles such as increasing intra-city mass transit and inter-city railroads, creating 'complete streets' that safely encourage bike and pedestrian traffic and regional food systems based on sustainable organic agriculture.

Welcome to the roaring twenties. It's a shame that the Green Party has little to no support among the plebs they fight for, and that possible legislation could enable such a radical and amazing new ideology as to enable complete economic and social equality or decentralization of wealth. **** is real son, Green Party trying to save the world one dirty hippie at a time.

"Sup niggas, I'm here to be your savior. **** everything, it's first female president time YOLO".

Can you not imagine that happening? Probably not because most of the wack ass voters ain't going to read about how this bitch is gonna Captain Planet this country.

TheBig3 · 09-12-2012, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

I loved Obama when he was campaigning for his initial presidency.
Now, 4 years later, I realize that what he took on was a burden, but I would have liked to see an improvement by now in some of the immediate factors, rather than a downgrade.

Whether the issue is that he isn't capable of bringing his vision about and only used it as a campaigning platform, or that opposing parties have gotten in the way, I think another 4 years with the same partisan layout in the house and senate will make no difference, and trends will continue as they have been. It wouldn't make sense to think that suddenly, with the same scenario as the last 4 years, that the next would be any different. Something has to change, and it's not simply a hook, line and sinker.

The only true test would be for Dems to get a majority seat, and Obama re-elected, and have another 4 years to see the promises come to fruition. But then again, we'd still be betting on campaign promises that, historically, have always been a bit shy to put it mildly. Not to mention the fact that the Dems had a majority before the last elections, after Obama had already been in office.
But still, giving time the benefit of the doubt, I'd be interested to see what Obama could do with a majority and another 4 years.

Do I think that will happen? Majority? Maybe not. 4 more years? Maybe so. So if change is going to come down the pipe, something pretty drastic will have to happen, and I guess I just don't see it happening. But who's to say?

As far as Romney, I don't like the guy as he's flopped harder than a fish out of water, and I generally don't like people who base rational decisions on religious considerations, but there are some things I agree with in regard to job creation and economic issues that I think the right has better ideas for.
Ultimately, for me to choose either candidate, I would be both supporting values I hold, and forsaking values I hold. The real choice is which of those values do I think will benefit me for the next 4 years, at least until someone with more than a dazzling speech and someone with more than a stringent, uncompromising ideology comes along.

So yea, my vote goes to Mr. Kitty.

What do you think Romney is doing correctly on job creation?

What do you think Obama is doing wrong on his promises?

Personally, I think Obama is the man for the job. I think he's a rational person with the right end goals in mind. He's not insanely partisan but I do think he's not afraid to stand up for what he believes in (healthcare, national defense, ect.)

There have been time I was frustrated, but I can't think of an issue where I don't agree with him.

Freebase Dali · 09-12-2012, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

What do you think Romney is doing correctly on job creation?

What do you think Obama is doing wrong on his promises?

Personally, I think Obama is the man for the job. I think he's a rational person with the right end goals in mind. He's not insanely partisan but I do think he's not afraid to stand up for what he believes in (healthcare, national defense, ect.)

There have been time I was frustrated, but I can't think of an issue where I don't agree with him.

I don't think Romney is doing anything correctly on job creation, as he's not in the position to create such an effect on the executive level of the presidency that would have an effect on a national scale. I said the right has ideas I like about job creation. If you want me to tell you what I like about those ideas, and throw in some ideas of my own, I'd be pleased to do so.

As far as Obama's unfulfilled promises, there are many of them, far too many to write out here, but you can look at some of the highlights here: PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are Promise Broken
And that's really just the first page I clicked. I'm not going for partisanship here. Just google what Obama has not accomplished. I'm sure not every result is a flat out lie.
But I do remember personally a promise about reducing the nation's debt, which, I don't know if you've noticed, has sorta done the opposite.
I was really hyped on his green energy solutions. Unfortunately, the money he invested in Solyndra turned out to be a waste. Not to mention the 2.4 billion taxpayer dollars funneled into electric vehicle companies to get electric vehicles on the road that completely flopped.

The "stimulus" turned out to be a bust.

The "no taxes for people under 250,000" thing obviously and outrageously showed itself as a falsehood, either planned or not, what with cigarette taxes, among other things, rising to unprecedented levels, and his very own health bill being actually ruled as a tax while his administration tried to play it off as otherwise like it actually matters.

I'm not saying I don't agree with his goals.
I'm just saying he did a pretty ****ty job at trying to implement them, is all.

I'd say, looking back, the last 4 years can only really give 1 thing to his name, and that's his healthcare bill. Bin Laden, I can't really be serious and say with a straight face that he's the only guy that could have been occupying the White House when that happened. Yes, there are other successes, but by and large, the things he said he would do, have remained largely "not done".

I respect that he wants to get things done. I just cringe when the majority of those things simply consist of a campaign platform, or an inability to work through the obstructive force of another party.

**Janszoon** · 09-13-2012, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

But I do remember personally a promise about reducing the nation's debt, which, I don't know if you've noticed, has sorta done the opposite.

He may not have decreased the debt but he has apparently had the lowest spending increase since Eisenhower.

Freebase Dali · 09-13-2012, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

He may not have decreased the debt but he has apparently had the lowest spending increase since Eisenhower.

Neat graphic. I hope that isn't the sole objective quantification there, or else we should fire a lot of analysts!

Anyway, this site may both alleviate and exacerbate concerns:
FactCheck.org : Obama’s Spending: ‘Inferno’ or Not?

Their rectification chart isn't quite as dramatic, but some of the reading might be of interest.
Particularly the part where Obama failed to actually reduce spending.

**Janszoon** · 09-13-2012, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

Neat graphic. I hope that isn't the sole objective quantification there, or else we should fire a lot of analysts!

Anyway, this site may both alleviate and exacerbate concerns:
FactCheck.org : Obama’s Spending: ‘Inferno’ or Not?

Their rectification chart isn't quite as dramatic, but some of the reading might be of interest.

Actually, I put the image in as an afterthought. Did you read the article I linked to?

Freebase Dali · 09-13-2012, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Actually, I put the image in as an afterthought. Did you read the article I linked to?

Yes, I've read the article before.
I never made the claim that Obama increased spending dramatically. In fact, I applaud him for the fact that he hasn't. But I do make the claim that his policies have not been conducive to reducing spending, as is apparent.

A few good chunks of spending could have been avoided had some of his programs not failed so miserably.

**Janszoon** · 09-13-2012, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

Yes, I've read the article before.
I never made the claim that Obama increased spending dramatically. In fact, I applaud him for the fact that he hasn't. But I do make the claim that his policies have not been conducive to reducing spending, as is apparent.

A few good chunks of spending could have been avoided had some of his programs not failed so miserably.

I guess I see it more as slowing down a speeding train, something which he has done. I don't think it reasonable to expect everything to come to a screeching halt in the short amount of time he's had.

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