Music Banter

Go Back   Music Banter > Community Center > The Lounge > Current Events, Philosophy, & Religion
Register Blogging Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Welcome to Music Banter Forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with over 70,000 other registered members. After you create your free account, you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 1,100,000 posts.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-14-2012, 09:39 PM   #121 (permalink)
Music Addict
 
midnight rain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,662
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna View Post
And what exactly did loose gun laws do to HELP this situation that stricter guns would hurt? Did you hear of any reports of armed citizens returning fire on the gunman?
I wish someone would answer this.

How did the right to bears arm positively affect this situation? Can we at least look at school shootings and acknowledge that a.) the right to bear arms rarely comes into play and b.) the vast majority of school shooters get firearms not from the black market, but from relatives who own them through legal means?

tl;dr: the one touted advantage of gun ownership is moot in this scenario, and banning guns would at the very least make it much more difficult for angsty, impulsive teens to get their hands on them.
__________________
last.fm

Last edited by midnight rain; 12-14-2012 at 09:46 PM.
midnight rain is offline  
Old 12-14-2012, 09:51 PM   #122 (permalink)
Mate, Spawn & Die
 
Janszoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,028
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freebase Dali View Post
I agree in whole that there needs to be proactive, not reactive, systems in place to ensure that guns don't end up in the hands of those that would use them maliciously. That's the thing. A lot of people just say "AAAAH BAN ALL GUNS NAO!" without even contextualizing it and actually analyzing the greater effect it would have for this country. But people should consider the situation here instead of simply comparing their own situations and saying "well it works here", and using that as personal proof that a completely different system would work just as well.
Honestly, I don't think there are many people who hold that opinion. In my experience, even the biggest gun control advocates recognize that it might be perfectly reasonable to own a gun of some kind if you live out in middle-of-nowhere Alaska or something. I think you're absolutely right with regards to context and I think it's important for both sides to realize that it cuts both ways. Just like a city guy like me needs to recognize that there may be legit reasons to have gun out in the country, people in rural areas need to understand that there's a reason a lot of urban people don't want guns in their cities.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by P A N View Post
i'm not gonna spend my life on music banter trying to convince people the earth is flat.
A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die


last.fm
Janszoon is offline  
Old 12-14-2012, 09:55 PM   #123 (permalink)
Partying on the inside
 
Freebase Dali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,329
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna View Post
I wish someone would answer this.

How did the right to bears arm positively affect this situation? Can we at least look at school shootings and acknowledge that a.) the right to bear arms rarely comes into play and b.) the vast majority of school shooters get firearms not from the black market, but from relatives who own them through legal means?

tl;dr: the one touted advantage of gun ownership is moot in this scenario, and banning guns would at the very least make it much more difficult for angsty, impulsive teens to get their hands on them.
Well, the right to bear arms didn't positively affect this because A) Firearms are not allowed at school, and B) There was no armed guard at the school.

I'm not sure if you're trying to fault the right to bear arms not saving the day when weapons are not allowed at school and no armed guards were present. We aren't exactly calling for 9 year olds to be able to carry guns at school to protect themselves from would-be assassins...

Or maybe I'm totally misunderstanding what you're trying to say.
Freebase Dali is offline  
Old 12-14-2012, 09:58 PM   #124 (permalink)
air quote
 
Engine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: pollen & mold
Posts: 3,050
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janszoon View Post
Honestly, I don't think there are many people who hold that opinion. In my experience, even the biggest gun control advocates recognize that it might be perfectly reasonable to own a gun of some kind if you live out in middle-of-nowhere Alaska or something. I think you're absolutely right with regards to context and I think it's important for both sides to realize that it cuts both ways. Just like a city guy like me needs to recognize that there may be legit reasons to have gun out in the country, people in rural areas need to understand that there's a reason a lot of urban people don't want guns in their cities.
I don't think he implied that guns are okay in the middle of nowhere but not okay in big cities. It's a matter of civil liberties and personal choices. Those things apply in downtown Philly and nowhere Alaska.
__________________
Like an arrow,
I was only passing through.
Engine is offline  
Old 12-14-2012, 09:58 PM   #125 (permalink)
Mate, Spawn & Die
 
Janszoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,028
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine View Post
You didn't. I apologize for saying that you asked a question

I only meant to address the 'a' and 'b' parts of your statement
Ah, in that case I'm sorry to say I don't think you really responded to my statements either. I was mostly addressing the "if guns are illegal only criminals will have guns" argument that comes up so much in gun control conversations. Point A was simply that, despite what many seem to think, it is actually a lot harder for an unhinged guy like the shooter in this case to get a hold of a street gun than a legal one. Point B was a commentary about street guns' origins as legally purchased firearms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine View Post
I don't think he implied that guns are okay in the middle of nowhere but not okay in big cities. It's a matter of civil liberties and personal choices. Those things apply in downtown Philly and nowhere Alaska.
Who is "he"? Freebase? Yeah, he didn't say either of those things. I was the one saying them.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by P A N View Post
i'm not gonna spend my life on music banter trying to convince people the earth is flat.
A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die


last.fm
Janszoon is offline  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:06 PM   #126 (permalink)
air quote
 
Engine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: pollen & mold
Posts: 3,050
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janszoon View Post
Who is "he"? Freebase? Yeah, he didn't say either of those things. I was the one saying them.
Haha, okay let's slow down and get rational. You (Janszoon) implied those things. And I understand why. My response remains the same ("he" being FD).

Give me a minute to read your last post that responded to mine for a minute. I'm kind of slow.
__________________
Like an arrow,
I was only passing through.
Engine is offline  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:06 PM   #127 (permalink)
Music Addict
 
midnight rain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,662
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freebase Dali View Post
Well, the right to bear arms didn't positively affect this because A) Firearms are not allowed at school, and B) There was no armed guard at the school.

I'm not sure if you're trying to fault the right to bear arms not saving the day when weapons are not allowed at school and no armed guards were present. We aren't exactly calling for 9 year olds to be able to carry guns at school to protect themselves from would-be assassins...

Or maybe I'm totally misunderstanding what you're trying to say.
It really goes for any kind of spree killing where 99% of the time it ends up being the cops who take down the perpetrator.

There's two ways of looking at it obviously
-stricter gun control
-less gun control

Is #2 really a path we want to take? Fighting violence with violence, basically turning the U.S. into a hostile war zone of it's own, where everyone is so on edge that they feel the need to carry a gun on themselves at all times to be safe? Doesn't sound like a very hospitable environment to me.

An armed guard would potentially work, but at the same time it takes, what, 1 minute to gun down an entire classroom of people?
__________________
last.fm
midnight rain is offline  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:07 PM   #128 (permalink)
Partying on the inside
 
Freebase Dali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,329
Default

I'm just going to assume that everything I type that is not replied to, is universally agreed upon in this forum.

I f*cking hate being agreed with.
I live for arguments.
Someone argue with me.


Edit:
Thanks Tuna!
Freebase Dali is offline  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:09 PM   #129 (permalink)
Mate, Spawn & Die
 
Janszoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,028
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freebase Dali View Post
Someone argue with me.
Your shoes don't match your pants.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by P A N View Post
i'm not gonna spend my life on music banter trying to convince people the earth is flat.
A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die


last.fm
Janszoon is offline  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:12 PM   #130 (permalink)
air quote
 
Engine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: pollen & mold
Posts: 3,050
Default

So three nerds walk into a bar.
One says "Let's get drunk and talk about gun politics."

Nobody else said anything worth mentioning.
__________________
Like an arrow,
I was only passing through.
Engine is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads



2003-2019 Advameg, Inc.

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.2 ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.