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View Poll Results: Does altruism exist?
Yes 9 52.94%
No 6 35.29%
I don't know. 2 11.76%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-16-2013, 03:42 PM   #21 (permalink)
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How often do you open the door for people....?
Only when other people are around, so they can see how nice I am. Scratch that, if it's a hot girl too.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:44 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Goofle11 View Post
Only when other people are around.
Well it would be strange if you stood there holding it open when no one else was around...

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Old 04-16-2013, 03:48 PM   #23 (permalink)
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You pointed a flaw in the wording of my joke. +10 observational skills.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:28 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Yes and no. Or, better said, there is altruism and there is selfishness. Yesterday I read something about it, by Adam Smith:

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Let us suppose that the great empire of China, with all its myriads of inhabitants, was suddenly swallowed up by an earthquake, and let us consider how a man of humanity in Europe, who had no sort of connexion with that part of the world, would be affected upon receiving intelligence of this dreadful calamity. He would, I imagine, first of all, express very strongly his sorrow for the misfortune of that unhappy people, he would make many melancholy reflections upon the precariousness of human life, and the vanity of all the labours of man, which could thus be annihilated in a moment. He would too, perhaps, if he was a man of speculation, enter into many reasonings concerning the effects which this disaster might produce upon the commerce of Europe, and the trade and business of the world in general. And when all this fine philosophy was over, when all these humane sentiments had been once fairly expressed, he would pursue his business or his pleasure, take his repose or his diversion, with the same ease and tranquillity, as if no such accident had happened. The most frivolous disaster which could befal himself would occasion a more real disturbance. If he was to lose his little finger to-morrow, he would not sleep to-night; but, provided he never saw them, he will snore with the most profound security over the ruin of a hundred millions of his brethren, and the destruction of that immense multitude seems plainly an object less interesting to him, than this paltry misfortune of his own.

The Theory of Moral Sentiments (1759), III.I.46.
It sounds cynical, but the man is right. There is the other side, though. Imagine that you had to choose between your finger or the death of millions of people. Would you lose your finger if you could save the lives of all that people?

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To prevent, therefore, this paltry misfortune to himself, would a man of humanity be willing to sacrifice the lives of a hundred millions of his brethren, provided he had never seen them? Human nature startles with horror at the thought, and the world, in its greatest depravity and corruption, never produced such a villain as could be capable of entertaining it. But what makes this difference? When our passive feelings are almost always so sordid and so selfish, how comes it that our active principles should often be so generous and so noble? When we are always so much more deeply affected by whatever concerns ourselves, than by whatever concerns other men; what is it which prompts the generous, upon all occasions, and the mean upon many, to sacrifice their own interests to the greater interests of others? It is not the soft power of humanity, it is not that feeble spark of benevolence which Nature has lighted up in the human heart, that is thus capable of counteracting the strongest impulses of self-love. It is a stronger power, a more forcible motive, which exerts itself upon such occasions. It is reason, principle, conscience, the inhabitant of the breast, the man within, the great judge and arbiter of our conduct. It is he who, whenever we are about to act so as to affect the happiness of others, calls to us, with a voice capable of astonishing the most presumptuous of our passions, that we are but one of the multitude, in no respect better than any other in it; and that when we prefer ourselves so shamefully and so blindly to others, we become the proper objects of resentment, abhorrence, and execration. It is from him only that we learn the real littleness of ourselves, and of whatever relates to ourselves, and the natural misrepresentations of self-love can be corrected only by the eye of this impartial spectator. It is he who shows us the propriety of generosity and the deformity of injustice; the propriety of resigning the greatest interests of our own, for the yet greater interests of others, and the deformity of doing the smallest injury to another, in order to obtain the greatest benefit to ourselves. It is not the love of our neighbour, it is not the love of mankind, which upon many occasions prompts us to the practice of those divine virtues. It is a stronger love, a more powerful affection, which generally takes place upon such occasions; the love of what is honourable and noble, of the grandeur, and dignity, and superiority of our own characters.

The Theory of Moral Sentiments (1759), III.I.46.
-------------------------------------

Now I'm thinking about medical scientists devoting their lives to trying to alleviate Human suffering. Some of them work for private companies. In that case, is there some dose of altruism there or is it just about making a profit? Or maybe both things?

There may be altruism in little things too. For instance, let's see the Internet. Many people share their knowledge for free. Free software, free cultural works, etc. Also, take a look at Music Banter. Don't we visit the Name that Tune section in order to help someone who we don't know for nothing in exchange?
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Old 10-27-2013, 03:42 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Altruism exists because its opposite exists. And opposites create eachother. Good creates bad, ugliness creates beauty, light creates darkness, chaos creates order, and vice versa, and so on and so forth. Take life for example: if everything was alive and lived forever we wouldn't regard it as life because we only know life in relation to what isn't life.

It's interesting to note that many altruists are altruistic because they realised that being selflessly good to others makes the self feel good. But does that still mean they're being altruistic? I don't suppose it matters really, it's a philosophical question that only morons like myself would ponder.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:25 PM   #26 (permalink)
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^I agree. Altruism exists because selfishness exists, and both are defined within a spectrum of human behavior. It's sort of meaningless imo to drag biology into this discussion and bring up the many ways that people might indirectly benefit from altruistic behavior. The fact is that anything that doesn't ultimately benefit your genes in some way won't evolve and so it's pointless to frame the question in that way. We originally defined these terms based on subjective human values, i.e. traits that we admire in other humans vs traits that we find distasteful. We shouldn't lose sight of that very basic dynamic.
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Old 03-22-2014, 01:03 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mr. Charlie View Post
Altruism exists because its opposite exists. And opposites create eachother. Good creates bad, ugliness creates beauty, light creates darkness, chaos creates order, and vice versa, and so on and so forth. Take life for example: if everything was alive and lived forever we wouldn't regard it as life because we only know life in relation to what isn't life.

It's interesting to note that many altruists are altruistic because they realised that being selflessly good to others makes the self feel good. But does that still mean they're being altruistic? I don't suppose it matters really, it's a philosophical question that only morons like myself would ponder.
I enjoyed this statement, and it is exactly why I say altruism doesn't exist.
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Old 03-22-2014, 05:59 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I enjoyed this statement, and it is exactly why I say altruism doesn't exist.
Ok, explain this one to me.

I was driving home last night, guy runs out of gas on a blind corner, gas station is just ahead. Me getting out and helping him push didn't make me feel any sort of way. I just did it on instinct. Pure gut instinct. As much as the guy, yelled at me "naw baby I got dis..." I pushed anyway. I was in a ****ty mood to ice the cake that was my **** fest of a day, so when I did this I was not exactly feeling warm and fuzzy. Might have been why I said "Dude, shut up! And steer..." Did I get a rush of warm fuzzies afterward? Nope.

Now get this, I looked at my phone walking back to my car. One missed call. A coworker and friend of mine, drove past, saw me, (little ole me) pushing a huge ass caprice down the street, and simply called to ask what I was doing.

Didn't stop to help me their friend, who was actually doing something completely altruistic. This guys has a connection to me, forget the stranger, I am the only one that established a connection with the stranger. So by that rational if we were all out to feel good and pat ourselves on the back my friend would have stopped to help me, help the stranger and we would have all sat down and sang kumbyah afterward. Because we all felt good. That did not happen.
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Old 03-22-2014, 11:18 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Ok, explain this one to me.

I was driving home last night, guy runs out of gas on a blind corner, gas station is just ahead. Me getting out and helping him push didn't make me feel any sort of way. I just did it on instinct. Pure gut instinct. As much as the guy, yelled at me "naw baby I got dis..." I pushed anyway. I was in a ****ty mood to ice the cake that was my **** fest of a day, so when I did this I was not exactly feeling warm and fuzzy. Might have been why I said "Dude, shut up! And steer..." Did I get a rush of warm fuzzies afterward? Nope.

Now get this, I looked at my phone walking back to my car. One missed call. A coworker and friend of mine, drove past, saw me, (little ole me) pushing a huge ass caprice down the street, and simply called to ask what I was doing.

Didn't stop to help me their friend, who was actually doing something completely altruistic. This guys has a connection to me, forget the stranger, I am the only one that established a connection with the stranger. So by that rational if we were all out to feel good and pat ourselves on the back my friend would have stopped to help me, help the stranger and we would have all sat down and sang kumbyah afterward. Because we all felt good. That did not happen.
I think you did it on instinct because you have been programmed to believe it was the right thing to do. And programming can go a long way.

Therefore... still not altruism.
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Old 08-07-2014, 05:27 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I would argue that altruism does exist, it's not just not the pure ideal of altruism that some people think it is. Altruistic behavior is our behavior that is irrational in terms of personal survival, but somehow helps the survival chances of species or individual members of the species. It doesn't matter whether the altruistic behavior makes the organism feel good or not, though typically it does and that's why they do it.

In primates (including early humans) altruism stemmed from limited inbreeding (a typical trait of social organisms). It turns out that social animals are more willing to help out fellow members of their species that share more resemblance to them. The benefits/cost of altruism aren't necessarily realized by the individual itself, it is a random mutation that favored reproduction of social species, and thus, those groups of primates had a higher chance of survival than groups with more in-group competition.

Altruism - EvoWiki
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