Yes but many people have shocking and abhorrent upbringings and make a good life for themselves. At the end of the day, people will always bring children into the world, in less than ideal circumstances.

But that doesn't make it morally acceptable.

But what can you do about it? People that are born in bad circumstances don't necessarily want to end their opportunity at a better life because they had a horrid start. I'm no expert but its easy to want people not to suffer (a nice thought) but being able to prevent it is highly unlikely unless you are able to take them into your family perhaps. I think that's definitely a good thing about adoption, giving people the option of helping a child whose parents were not able to provide a good life for them.

I think I understand what you're trying to say, and please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong. But if somebody is going to give birth to a child (whether they want to or not is their own problem), the child should not be led into the suffering that the parent already deals with. Even if the child grows up to be a successful business man or what have you, the parent should not feel like they accomplished something in what the child has become. The parent should always be held responsible for the damage they caused them as a child, whether or not the grown man shows signs of being affected by it growing up.

Without life this universe would be nothing more than floating clumps of elements circling each other. And without suffering life would not be possible.

She's seen 3 gynos in the last 4 years. And two other specialists. They all spew the same sh*t. Like, does she have to be on the edge of death before they even consider the procedure? I don't understand it.

How is that even possible to avoid? You are basically saying that all parents cause their children suffering due to their own reasons for having children. It's not just parents that cause children to suffer. It can be socio-economic, extended relatives, teachers, peers, co-workers, strangers, you name it.

I don't think I implied that. I said whether or not they want children is their own problem and if they do have a child, the suffering the parent goes through should not effect being a good parent to the child. However, the parent should be held responsible for creating a stressful and not so great upbringing for the child. You can't tell me you don't agree with the fact that as the kid grows up, he'd be happier if he had a much more positive upbringing.

I know what you are saying, but there are so many races, cultures and ideas about how children should be raised. And not everyone has the same ideas about what is and isn't positive. In a perfect world sure.

You guys are assigning a different connotation to the word suffering than what I intended. Again, apologies for not making myself clear.

When I say existence is suffering, I don't mean suffering in the sense that sometimes bad things happen. When you are hungry, that is a form of suffering. When you are thirsty, tired, cold, sick, etc etc etc, all of that is a very basic and unavoidable suffering inherent to the existence of sentient beings. The negative things that happen throughout the experience of a sentient being are merely piled on top of that initial suffering.

The only possible way to keep a being from suffering is to not bring the being into existence.