vasectomy or tubes tied at a young age is dumb

i used to think i would marry the first girl i ever dated as a teenager too. guess what, things change. and its funny to me how the fact that ppl and things change gets turned into some sort of know-it-all arrogance. it isnt. its just a fact that things change in life as you get older. dont care what someone does with their body for the most part but also doesnt change that i think its stupid

russian roulette isnt a good analogy or whatever for me. russian roulette would be a total chance in the dark, no variables, no control whatsoever. each parent has a big influence on whether their kid becomes a successful member of society or a mass murderer. so thats just a dumb analogy imo

This is the kind of conversation I live to have, to be honest. I've lost friends and have been black-sheeped by family over my views and I absolutely understand why, but I do commend you for calling them interesting rather than insane. :laughing:

Like I said, I'm not going to get into the nature vs. nurture argument now, but the fact remains that there are innumerable factors that parents can't control. Successful member of society or a mass murderer was just the example I chose to use. But what if, say, you have a child who is raped, assaulted, brutally murdered, killed by a drunk driver, drowns accidentally, is attacked by a dog, gets cancer, etc. etc.?

It's Russian Roulette in that you knowingly procreate despite the risks, and despite the best interests of the child.

It's a great analogy. You don't know how your kid is going to turn out as an adult, since the future can't be predicted. You could either be the best parent in the world and your child could become the next Ted Bundy, or you could be the worst parent possible and your kid could become president. Of course parents have a huge influence on their children, which is why it's so important to set a good example for them. But you can't shelter your kids either. They are going to be exposed to society right from the beginning - then it's up to the individual child to decide right from wrong. You hope that they make the right choices in life but you can't exactly prevent them from making the wrong choices either. Just like you can't predict which chamber the bullet is in when you play Russian roulette.

thanks, but I'm almost 25 and I've been engaged twice, married, divorced, and I'm not going to tolerate another loss (and Ki is mature enough to know this - we made a promise to each other for life).

An equally valid analogy (as opposed to Russian roulette) would be driving to work. You can never be sure that your actions will not result in a great amount of your own or someone else's suffering.

@Junkyard Donner I'm sorry if I offended you when I said your philosophy was bizarre. Sometimes I word things more harshly than I should. I honestly don't think it's insane I just think it selects for the negative aspects of life as inherently more important than the positive.

we can disagree then. like i said, you have a lot of influence on how your child ends up. its mostly up to you and your parentin. theres events ya cant predict or prepare for but ya can teach someone how to deal with trauma or adversity or whatever

actually wasnt really talkin specifically about you since it was more just an example of how things change

Change happens to the fickle who are unable to make proper decisions in the first place, my friend.

Well, yeah. The backbone of the philosophy is that there is a negative value assigned to birth. It's all about the negativity, man. :p

I wasn't directing that comment at you, btw. "Insane" was a word used by someone in real life. And I totally get it, it does seem insane and bizarre and unjustified but I've spent a lot - A LOT - of time and energy researching and pondering and reading and questioning everything about antinatalism and I just haven't yet come across anything that invalidates it. The closest I've gotten is "Schopenhauer's a dick." I consider myself open minded in regards to my stance on this philosophy in that I'm very willing to have my mind changed, but it would take a ****load of convincing.

i hope youve changed from 18 to 25. if not, thats sad

I didn't say you couldn't.