Are you pro or anti-establishment?
 

Do you believe your government (wherever you live) works for your good or not? Do you support local services like the police and so on? Or do you think the govt is always screwing you over, is intrinsically corrupt and always will be, and do you think the police are biased against either you or a certain cultural type? Would you help the cops if you could, or would you make it difficult for them?

acab, tbh

The police do extremely dangerous work. When at their best, they perform selfless acts of great heroism and they serve and protect the citizens of the world.

When at their worst, they become deranged with power, and brutalize the citizens they are supposed to protect. This would describe the two Ohio cops that killed my BFF

http://www.musicbanter.com/members/p...-me-dougie.jpg

Ha! If only this were a black and white question. I can't even vote on the pole. Boo! Someone put anal beads up there so I can at least vote.

I would like to believe that everything with the government was fair and honest, but that would just being naive. I've always supported the local police, etc. But there is a major difference between a small town cop getting paid $15 an hour and a state trooper. I think there will always be corruption no matter what. I honestly don't waste very much time worrying about it either way. But it is a reason for concern.

Ill be happy when drugs and prostitutes are legalized
Hookers and blow all day baby

:laughing:

Now that would be living the life of a rockstar. :D

This is the best i can describe the Puertorican government.

"This is the best we can do"

it's flawed system but it's the only one we got and we can't handle good politicians that tell us it's our own fault we got into the economical mess we are in, we want bad politicians that tell us everything is gonna be magically solved with no budget cuts.

We breed bad politicians and weed out the good ones over here and the citizens here could not care less.

:laughing: I think its funny, that your personal observation and description sounds as bleak and hopeless as mine does.

Yea, im a depressed cynical assh*le by default it pains me to be optimistic sometimes :p:

especially here in PR, among the citizens ignorance is spread quickly but the inconvenient truth has to be reserved so we don't feel judged.

So we don't want to acknowledge how we got into this mess and we don't want realistic solutions we want our politicians to be messiahs that magically save our budget.

And the thing is, at this point to truly eliminate corruption we would have disassemble our system and this would stop progress so we don't do that, instead we work within a corrupt system and keep piling on layers of bullsh*t that ends up becoming part of it's foundation.

I feel like no matter what, no matter what precautions you place, any government will be corrupted in some form or another. It's been this way forever, people aren't fit to rule themselves, why not let a machine do it? I feel like we'd all rebel and start back from square one if that happened anyway.

I'm on to you....

I find this to be a false dichotomy personally. The issue is slightly more nuanced than that. Some government individuals and agencies provide an important service that is a benefit to society over all, but some abuse power or let their personal feelings guide their judgment in office, and some are just incompetent or ideas or poorly executed.

That being said, I'm a nihilist. I don't believe in objective meaning or value, I believe value and meaning come from humans. So I don't really care in the end, I will adapt to whatever B.S. power-abuser pull, and I will take advantage of whatever services governments offer.

I think the options given are far too black/white.

Government is great for some things, and horribly inept and ill prepared for others. Corruption is going to happen for either, but what is more concerning to me is whether government is a viable solution to a particular problem to begin with. If government is expected to solve all problems, then government is thus expected to control all things.

Personally, I'm more comfortable with judging individual policies versus opening up to the idea that government is inherently good/bad. That's too wide of a filter, and one or the other in such a state is bound to be a negative thing no matter what.

I'm 100% for the idea of an Established government (which by the way, Establishment is capitalized in the sense we're talking about here) on paper, but in reality, government at any level breaks down occasionally and has to be corrected.

The process for government to break down is a slow process that can't (I'm generalizing here) happen over night, and so the majority of the time I'm pro establishment.

How can you pick one or the other? In some regards, the government do a good job with the services they provide. In others, they are underfunded, not well thought-through, or in many cases corrupt. I don't think though that I could ever label myself as pro- or anti-establishment. Maybe when I was 18 years old and an idealistic, rebellious teen I would have considered myself "anti" in every sense of the word but the reality is that not all facets of any government is terrible, let alone "corrupt."

Basically what Freebase said. Too black and white.

X2 :clap:

Please add anal beads so I can vote. SHeeyot!

Edit: I have now voted for anal beads. I feel better.

Same here. When I was younger I used to be extremely anti-government but my views have gotten a lot more complicated over time. Not only is government useful for building roads and keeping people from killing each other, but it's also one of the only things in the world that can keep other powerful organizations such as corporations and religions in check. At the same time it can also be corrupt and intrusive and wasteful and downright dangerous. So, yeah, mixed feelings here too.

http://www.jrj-socrates.com/Cartoon%...Wiggum_300.gif

Myaaahhhh... you're all under arrest! :laughing:

Amen duder.

Corruption exists. Better that corruption be controlled by greedy men than malicious men.

Of course... whether those men in suits are also the latter is debatable. I think money is important to them, but not too often is intentionally harming others unprovoked to gain the power of fear.

Voting for anti because the current UK government are horrendous and just get worse and worse. I can count on one hand the politicians I actually trust and admire. However I do believe there is potential for good and I fully support the general ideas of government and democracy - it just seems like the bad tends to rise to the top.

Like many before me have said, it's too complex a topic to vote one way or the other, just as it's impossible for me to identify as either politically left or right leaning.

How do you define "establishment?" I'm very liberal and want much change. I guess that would make me anti, If the power that is in control is establishment, I'm very anti.

If I were still 16 I'd say anti because that's the punk thing to say.

But at this point, frankly, I'm just as lazy and complacent as the stereotypical mass-consumer 'sheeple'. The difference between me and them is I spend my monies on boozes instead of trendy clothing and iPhones.

So, I guess that leaves me in the third category: not-giving-a-****-about-the-establishment.


Edit:

**** cops though. Seriously.

^ That kinda brings to mind, I was thinkin earlier today, how if I were a cop I'd pull people over to let them know it sounds like they have a wheel bearing loose or need a coolant flush or something. I'd pull people over to help them. There should be a job with that description.

Pro; I believe the govt and its agencies do a good job

**** establishments especially eating ones!

I want the establishment to be more oppressive to feed into the fears of all the people that want smaller government or think that government is too invasive as it is.

It's like I want to punish/troll them.

All the ones that think the government is coming for mah guns by creating false flag events.

Going around saying that school shootings are fake and other mass shootings are fake. Sandy Hook was a hoax, Orlando night club was a hoax.

Bull****! I want to terrorize those people and everyone else will just be collateral damage.

:laughing:

I consider myself pro-establishment, but I do acknowledge the issues with the government.

I consider myself both pro and anti establishment. I believe government should stay out of business and allow people to live their lives anyway they want. That said, on certain things the government has to get involved with some things or we will get taken advantage of by big business anyway. We'll get paid a cent for a days work.

If it was completely a free market and they stayed out of Business that would be the worse thing ever. Businesses would run rampant and do much more shady things than they do now to cut corners and make more profit while destroying the environment and taking advantage of the people that work for them.

Yes. It needs to be a balance of the two. If the government gets too involve it has a tendency to lead to mass starvation and mass graves.

I actually agree with dj on this one. Businesses would get away with not paying taxes for years at a time and still be considered a success.

Woops, did I go there?

Do you know what completely free market means? Cause the US doesn't have that.

I honestly don't care. I just came in here to stir **** up.

Nicely done sir. I would tip my hat to you, but I'm not wearing one.

Go to the clothing store, buy a hat, come back, and tip your hat.