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Old 01-30-2015, 06:43 PM   #51 (permalink)
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who is the "i" in this statement? are you your entire body, or just your brain, or just some manifestation of consciousness within your brain, etc?
See, psychobabble.

I = the dude sitting in front of the keyboard at this very moment.
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Old 01-30-2015, 07:06 PM   #52 (permalink)
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that answer is insufficient

oh well, it's cool if you don't wanna think too hard i guess
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Old 01-30-2015, 07:24 PM   #53 (permalink)
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it's cool if you don't wanna think too hard i guess
No, I'm asking why you are over thinking this?

Free Will is a very simple concept. You are trying to make it way more than that. I'm not taking the bait.

I'll use my brain power on stuff that is worthy. Like the France killings.
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Old 01-30-2015, 07:43 PM   #54 (permalink)
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i would say you're under-thinking it. it's not such a simple concept and there is an extensive debate on the subject in philosophical literature. you can ignore this and say i don't care i have free anyway nananana if you like but that's not me making up bull**** that's you refusing to entertain the discussion at hand.
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Old 01-30-2015, 07:57 PM   #55 (permalink)
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it's not such a simple concept and there is an extensive debate on the subject in philosophical literature.
There's an an extensive debate on the subject of masturbation in philosophical circles too.

I'm not going to debate something so simple as free will. I have it. You have it. We decide many times a day if we choose to use it. Where's the debate other than the choosing in the moment for each of us?
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:12 PM   #56 (permalink)
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The concept of free will and human consciousness has an expansive and rich philosophical history - overthinking anything in that realm is impossible.
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:25 PM   #57 (permalink)
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imo the debate is in how the choice happens and who is really in control. that is why i asked you to define "you" as an agent or entity. certainly you must think of yourself as having some type of agency. it is actually kind of tricky to define our own agency which is why i was asking you to do so.

if "i" am jwb, the organism, then i am responsible for a whole range of tasks including producing the red blood cells in my veins to transport oxygen etc. but to me, anyway, it seems like these are just things that happen in my body. "i" don't do them. at least not "i" in the sense of the agency i was speaking of above.

you can apply the same logic to a lot of the work that your brain does, really. when you think of yourself as an agent you are most likely referring to the stream of consciousness that your brain produces.

so questioning free will to me is questioning whether that stream of consciousness is the actual captain of the ship that is your mind, or if it is just an interface for your brain to deal with the external world in a macroscopic way
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:42 PM   #58 (permalink)
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imo the debate is in how the choice happens and who is really in control. that is why i asked you to define "you" as an agent or entity. certainly you must think of yourself as having some type of agency. it is actually kind of tricky to define our own agency which is why i was asking you to do so.
I = me. I wake up every day, piss, walk the dogs, take a ****, walk the dogs, shave, take a shower, go to work for 9 hours, go to the market and buy sh*t, stock the shelves, walk the dogs again, pour a drink, watch the TV, go to sleep.

Sometimes I do this note for note.

Sometimes I alter it a bit.

Exactly WTF are you talking about? I have the free will to not walk the dogs and let them **** on the rug. I have the free will to not buy milk when we need it. I have the free will to blow off work and lose my job if I choose to do so.

WTF are you talking about? Give it to me in nuts and bolts, day to day verbiage. No psychobabble.
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:52 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I don't think your definition of psychobabble matches others...
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:56 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth View Post
if "i" am jwb, the organism, then i am responsible for a whole range of tasks including producing the red blood cells in my veins to transport oxygen etc. but to me, anyway, it seems like these are just things that happen in my body. "i" don't do them. at least not "i" in the sense of the agency i was speaking of above.
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I don't think your definition of psychobabble matches others...
Agreed. I just can't find a better word right now.

Free will has somehow devolved into cell reproduction????
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