DwnWthVwls

If I am recalling history correctly the majority of American slaves were purchased from Africa where they were already enslaved.

More on topic, I find it pretty unbelievable that the butter just happened to end up that way, but I also don't know how they make their food. Could it have been pre-made at a factory and frozen? So no one from that McDs is actually responsible.

If the kid did actually do it I think he deserves to be fired. Even though I mostly agree with you on the symbol having no power and not being offended by it, I also understand that some people do not share the same views and it is highly offense to a large population. We are the minority here.

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OP:

BOOHOO I CANT WEAR SWASTIKAS BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL GET OFFENDED AND I FEEL LIKE I HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL EVERYONE WHAT THEY SHOULD AND SHOULD NOT BE OFFENDED BY.



Obviously the symbol didn't do it, dude. But the symbol represented a group of people who did. How is that not enough for you to understand that someone might inherently associate a swastika with Nazism, even if they're well aware of it's history before WW2? I don't care enough to delve into it's meanings to different cultures of the centuries but am still aware it means something else to a lot of people. But in the western world? It's Nazism.

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Lord Larehip

My point is that the stars & bars flag had nothing whatsoever to do with the enslavement of people in Africa. It's bad history. It's not worth getting offended over. One of my neighbors flies one on his porch. I don't care, doesn't bother me.

Suppose he did it deliberately. So what? May be he meant it as a good luck symbol as in "good luck trying to digest that f-ucking piece of garbage you just ordered."

This.

Janszoon

Or, most likely, he meant it as a fuck you to his boss or to the customers, in which case he deserves to be fired.

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Lord Larehip

I just read the comments section of link I posted. Looks like I'm not alone.

Sean Patterson • 4 days ago
Only in the west is this a symbol of hatred. In many Asian countries and religions, most notably hinduism and buddhism, this is a symbol of luck and good fortune. Why do we allow the nazis such power even today so as to prevent the use of a symbol?
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Levi Beerbower Sean Patterson • 3 days ago
Agreed, heck even Native Americans used it
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Levi Beerbower Levi Beerbower • 3 days ago
The other thing is, the bun is round, a Nazi swastika is angled, and there is no way to know the true intent
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Peak City Dogs • 4 days ago
We are missing a teachable moment here. Re train, Forgive, and let them keep the job.

DwnWthVwls

Since you don't seem stupid I have to wonder if it's your ego and naivete which fails to acknowledge that the majority of the society you live in does not share the same ideology regarding swastikas. Even if you were somehow factually correct it wouldn't matter because society as a whole tends to dictate cultural right/wrongness, morality, and taboos.

Do you go around calling people n*ggers and f*ggots? By definition they are not offensive terms, and even if you are using them by definition they still have the power to offend a large portion of the population.I can't think of a much better analogy to explain why your views are not being widely accepted by other members.

Yes, I think it's stupid. Does it matter? No, you don't even have to view it as conformity, just consider it courteous to the people you are around. You have two options as a minority, 1) accept it 2) make an effort to change it. Go wear swastikas and educate people, I'm sure a lot of people in America don't even know it's other meanings. Arguing with forum members is a poor place to start if you are really passionate about this topic.

You know why I don't complain about things? Because I am too lazy to try and fix them and I don't feel like I have the right if I am not putting in the effort. Similarly to how people who don't vote bitch and moan about who wins.

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Lord Larehip

Yes, I've gone over this already--the mainstream dictates the meaning a symbol is given in a certain society. It is a version of our culture that the State wants us to have. It is not based on truth, fairness or accuracy. It is based on the politics of power. If it is not rejected or even questioned, it squelches free thought because that is what it was meant to do. The least you can do for yourself is to question everything.

???? BY DEFINITION that's exactly what they are.

But it IS conformity--that's exactly what it is and there is NO REASON to view it any other way. You're asking me to conform. Society is saying "just be like the rest of us." No, I don't want to. I'd rather be f-ucking dead. Now what? Have me arrested?

.

??? This from Meriam-Webster's might help:

Main Entry:fo£rum
Pronunciation:*f*r-*m
Function:noun
Inflected Form:plural forums also fo£ra \-*\
Etymology:Latin; akin to Latin foris outside, fores door — more at DOOR
Date:15th century

1 a : the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business b : a public meeting place for open discussion c : a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas
2 : a judicial body or assembly : COURT
3 a : a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion b : a program (as on radio or television) involving discussion of a problem usually by several authorities

This is aside from the fact that FAR more people will encounter this conversation online than I could ever encounter on the street. And if they respond, they are forced to do so intellectually instead of with insults and physical attacks.

And yet you're here participating in the discussion. So you obviously feel you have some stake in this thing.

Trollheart

The point about the swastika that you appear to be missing is that it's not the symbol that earns the hatred, directly: it's what it represents. As with all symbols, they have to stand for something and nobody is going to say something like "KKK?! Fuck that! I'm never gonna use the letter K again! (Oops! I just did!)" To make a comment like "the symbol didn't kill all those people" is beyond ignorant. Nobody would say such a thing. Nobody is going to go out hunting wild Swastikas; they can live in peace.

But even though it WAS a symbol of good luck and peace --- and in some places as you and others say, still is --- the fact is that for 99% of the population of at least the West --- and let's not forget, this was a World War --- the Swastika represents an evil, totalitarian empire who murdered countless millions and almost succeeded in the extermination of an entire race. To say "get over it" is glib and also quite an insult. Say that to anyone who had parents or grandparents killed by the Nazis, or to any concentration camp survivor.

If the ankh symbol, to use a pretty stupid and unlikely premise, were to be taken as their sigil by say Al Quaeda, if you saw it on their webcasts every time someone was beheaded, or any time anyone flew a plane into a building or blew one up, you would eventually come to associate what was/is a symbol of peace with one of hate. It's what is most current that sticks in the memory, and what matters. As for that kid: there's no way he meant that as anything other than an insult, up-yours etc. You telling me some teenager who work(ed) in MacDonalds knows about the ancient connotations of the Swastika, other than he's seen on maybe Castle Wolfenstein et al? That's a clear case of trying to excuse something on a really shaky defence.

Why do you want to wear the Swastika? Is it only for shock value? If nobody cared would you be so tied up about it? And you know, without question, what a massive proportion of the people who see it on you are going to think, so really it would seem all you want to do is wind people up and then cover it under the guise of "freedom of speech/expression". Yeah.

It comes down to this: you can't tell me, or anyone else, what to think or how to view certain objects, and you can't whine if, when the vast majority of your peers see it a certain way, and you see it another, you get flak for that. If you do. I don't know if you do, you haven't said. Some people (most really) do and will forever see the Swastika as a symbol of Nazi Germany, and therefore a symbol of evil, and you're not going to change their minds, no matter how much you want to. If 9 out of 10 Western people were asked to name one single thing that symbolised the Nazis, you can bet they would say the Swastika. It's just recognised as such and is forever ingrained on the human consciousness now. Many of us know it can/could stand for something totally opposite, but history has set it in stone now and it will forever be seen as a symbol of evil, hatred and prejudice.

So people will always think of the Swastika as evil, and you and others do not. Why not take your own advice and "get over it"? What does it matter to you? Do you think you can change the opinion of the whole world? You can't. You may bemoan people's close-mindedness, but you have to, you must accept that for millions of people across the world the Swastika represents evil, and it always will.

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Scarlett O'Hara

I feel like Larehip is making light of the fact that millions of people were horribly murdered because of a regime that was symbolised by the swastika. Because it was used thousands of years ago by someone else we should suddenly just forget about what it stood for only 80 years ago. Like WhateverDude said, you can't tell people what they can and can't be offended by. You are getting your knickers in a twist of something that shouldn't really affect you unless you're planning to wear it on clothing or get a tattoo of it. Just accept that it is offensive to some people (for good reasons) and move on.

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