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Old 01-12-2015, 07:48 AM   #221 (permalink)
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i don't say it with a straight face. you people just take me too serious. i think i'm right yea but i just throw in a bit of hyperbole for fun.

anyway, my main point was that the other side was wrong. so when you say stop and consider that you're both not wrong it really is nonsensical to me. i'm not being combative for the sake of it i'm just telling you honestly what i think. when you disagreed with me before on the freedom of speech thing i heard you out cause you were making some sense. if you say stuff that doesn't make sense then i don't pretend it does. that's just the way i am. you can call it combative if you like, i call it being honest.
That's your excuse? "Oh, I was just joking! You guys are so serious!" I'm sorry, but i'm not buying it. You've been saying horrible things like that for the entire thread.

But forget all of that. Read my post. What do you take issue with? Don't just say "I'm right and you're wrong". I pointed out that both sides of the argument have valid points, and you never disproved that. You simply started talking about how "Compromise sucks!" Two sides working to understand each other instead of pointlessly fighting isn't something that "doesn't make sense". It's called 'Friendship'. Look it up. And if you learn to stop being so cruel and randomly hateful, and at least try to understand the points of view of the people around you, I'd be glad to share it with you.
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Old 01-12-2015, 07:57 AM   #222 (permalink)
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you seem to be misinterpreting me tbh. if you think i meant 'just joking' as in there's not a point behind it, that's not what i was saying. it was a hyperbole for the sake of mocking the other side's point. and i have to do it cause they started it by saying i'm a radical and a warmonger just cause i don't want to appease some bearded thugs. if you fire shots at me i will fire back out of instinct. obviously i'm not specifically advocating some kind of deportation scheme, it was a rhetorical point.

anyway, i guess my issue is that you're saying you agree with me but then when you explain what you're agreeing with it's not actually what i'm saying. what i'm saying specifically is that "it could be handled better" is wrong. i don't know how much clearer i can make that. "handling it better" to me means appeasing terrorists. i don't think that is the right approach.
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Old 01-12-2015, 08:04 AM   #223 (permalink)
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And so it begins again. And I thought we were finally moving past the fighting...



Heh. Anyway, I understand your point. When terrorists start killing people, the world feels the need to take action, and they have every right to. But blindly rushing in with guns blazing isn't always the answer; in fact, that attitude is kind of what got the world into this mess in the first place. All i'm saying is that this is a complicated issue, and all opinions should be heard and respected for their worth. Because when you don't respect the opinions of others, they lose respect for your opinions. And then the fighting starts, and at the end of the day, all that has changed is that the body count has risen. True change is enacted by understanding, and until the world learns that, people are going to keep shooting each other up. You may destroy one terrorist cell, but another will just pop up to take it's place. And this will keep happening until the political and socioeconomic factors of the world start to change. So you see, violence is an incredibly tempting solution, but it's just a temporary fix, and in the end will result in even more bloodshed.

Last edited by Oriphiel; 01-12-2015 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 01-12-2015, 08:21 AM   #224 (permalink)
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And so it begins again. And I thought we were finally moving past the fighting...



Heh. Anyway, I understand your point. When terrorists start killing people, the world feels the need to take action, and they have every right to. But blindly rushing in with guns blazing isn't always the answer; in fact, that attitude is kind of what got the world into this mess in the first place.
see that's sorta a chicken and egg type claim to me that i'm really not on board with. you say it all started from antagonism, i feel really it's just as valid to say it started with the extremists being unable to handle criticism in the first place. that actually spurs on the antagonism and gives people like me more incentive to be antagonistic. because what we're talking about here is conflicting ideals. their ideal that is sacrosanct is respect for the prophet and respect for islam. my ideal which is sacrosanct is freedom to criticize anything. i won't budge any sooner than they will.

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All i'm saying is that this is a complicated issue, and all opinions should be heard and respected for their worth. Because when you don't respect the opinions of others, they lose respect for your opinions. And then the fighting starts, and at the end of the day, all that has changed is that the body count has risen. True change is enacted by understanding, and until the world learns that, people are going to keep shooting each other up. You may destroy one terrorist cell, but another will just pop up to takes it's place. And this will keep happening until the political and socioeconomic factors of the world start to change.
see i'm fine with you wanting to keep the peace and all but honestly i don't take these disagreements to heart as much as you do maybe. like it doesn't make me dislike people just cause i disagree with them. i like trollheart and chula fine but if i think they're wrong i'll say it and maybe i'm a bit of a dick about and and that makes people not like me back but i guess that's just a character flaw or whatever. but yea i can't honestly say i always respect people's opinion. i could lie about it to make people more comfortable but then that makes me uncomfortable lol.
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Old 01-12-2015, 08:21 AM   #225 (permalink)
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The fact that this "mob" will kill us for it, is exactly why they need to be called out for their psycho bull****. Don't antagonize them? **** that. Point out their nutbag sect's irrational nonsense for what it is in front of the entire world, cause if they're willing to kill someone over a cartoon, then their belief system needs to be scrutinized. Whatever form of Islam they practice isn't worth respecting or placating.
We know their belief system is irrational to ours, so there's no need to antagonize them further with pointless cartoons.

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er... they were a french magazine and they were attacked by french muslims. how exactly is that attacking an overseas demon? you're being disingenuous for the sake of appeasement imo.
...... but you do realize that these French muslims are ordered by the big boys in the Middle East, they don't sneeze unless ordered to.

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having the freedom to do the cartoons is absolutely worth it. i don't like being bossed around by bearded primitives, personally. just a matter of preference i guess.
You're not being bossed by bearded primitives, you think you are because the media tells you so and feeds on your nationalist fear, they need it and you supply it.

I doubt in your lifetime that the bearded ones will be telling you what to do in your own country, you live in the US right? You've probably got more chance of being shot in your local mall by a bearded gun nut than you have by an Islamic terrorist.

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backing down isn't necessary nor helpful either. try watching some of these people talk some time. if anything they are boosted up by your cowardice because they take it as a victory.
Cowardice or bravery is irrelevant to them, as are compassion and compromise towards their enemies. They're terrorists with their own agenda and only the correct key will possibly put a stop to their actions and drawing cartoons is certainly not the right key here.

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you sound like you don't mind living under sharia. you should be deported to iraq.
What gives you the right to suggest that a citizen from another country should be deported from that country, especially when that citizen loves his country? You sound like an extremist full of bollocks, but then again most extremists can't see much beyond their own tunnel vision of hate anyway.

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anyway, my main point was that the other side was wrong. so when you say stop and consider that you're both not wrong it really is nonsensical to me. i'm not being combative for the sake of it i'm just telling you honestly what i think. when you disagreed with me before on the freedom of speech thing i heard you out cause you were making some sense. if you say stuff that doesn't make sense then i don't pretend it does. that's just the way i am. you can call it combative if you like, i call it being honest.
..... and all of what you written here is nonsensical to me as well.
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If you can't deal with the fact that there are 6+ billion people in the world and none of them think exactly the same that's not my problem. Just deal with it yourself or make actual conversation. This isn't a court and I'm not some poet or prophet that needs everything I say to be analytically critiqued.
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Old 01-12-2015, 08:23 AM   #226 (permalink)
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So you see, violence is an incredibly tempting solution, but it's just a temporary fix, and in the end will result in even more bloodshed.
but i'm not actually being violent, i'm just using words just like you people are. so once again direct your peacekeeping towards the real thugs
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Old 01-12-2015, 08:30 AM   #227 (permalink)
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see that's sorta a chicken and egg type claim to me that i'm really not on board with. you say it all started from antagonism, i feel really it's just as valid to say it started with the extremists being unable to handle criticism in the first place. that actually spurs on the antagonism and gives people like me more incentive to be antagonistic. because what we're talking about here is conflicting ideals. their ideal that is sacrosanct is respect for the prophet and respect for islam. my ideal which is sacrosanct is freedom to criticize anything. i won't budge any sooner than they will.
It didn't start with "extremists being unable to handle criticism". It started thousands of years ago, with people being intolerant towards cultures that were different from their own, creating feuds that exist to this day. Try growing up in Israel or the Gaza Strip, where both sides launch missiles at each other on a monthly basis. Try watching your family blown to pieces in front of your eyes, and not feeling a seething hatred towards the people you blame for their demise. Try growing up in an area that has virtually no economy, because crazy dictators have smashed everything to pieces in order to fill their pockets. This is a complicated problem that has existed for longer than you realize, and guess what? People have tried to solve it with violence. They have tried this approach for thousands of years, and it has only made things worse. So let's drop the "us versus them" mentality, and finally admit that all of humanity shares this bed called earth, so it isn't wise for us to keep crapping in it.
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Old 01-12-2015, 08:33 AM   #228 (permalink)
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but i'm not actually being violent, i'm just using words just like you people are. so once again direct your peacekeeping towards the real thugs
Read my post again. It had nothing to do with your personal level of violence. Try not to miss the point this time. You keep claiming that using violence against the terrorists is the best solution. The truth is that it is a temporary solution, and will only create even more destabilized political and socioeconomic factors, leading to more terrorist cells. It is a temporary fix, tempting and seemingly justified as it is, and has been proven to solve nothing.

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So you see, violence is an incredibly tempting solution, but it's just a temporary fix, and in the end will result in even more bloodshed.

Last edited by Oriphiel; 01-12-2015 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 01-12-2015, 08:34 AM   #229 (permalink)
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...... but you do realize that these French muslims are ordered by the big boys in the Middle East, they don't sneeze unless ordered to.
no i don't realize this, i see homegrown terrorists come up with plots all the time. but even if that's true i don't see how it addresses my point. they are taking the fight to your doorstep. it's not staying overseas like you say.
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You're not being bossed by bearded primitives, you think you are because the media tells you so and feeds on your nationalist fear, they need it and you supply it.
i'm not being bossed because i'm not trying to appease them, but lets say as a society we do decide to censor ourselves as a result of this kind of thing. that is us being bossed. how else can you put it? take south park for example... they wanted to have that muhammad episode. viacom shut it down because they were afraid of islamic terror. the creators of south park were bossed into not having their show be the way they want it by overseas thugs willing to kill over words.

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I doubt in your lifetime that the bearded ones will be telling you what to do in your own country, you live in the US right? You've probably got more chance of being shot in your local mall by a bearded gun nut than you have by an Islamic terrorist.
that's not really the point. if we back down as a society then we are being bossed around, point blank. i consider maintaining freedom of speech a sort of collective interest. i don't need to be specifically targeted by terrorists to make it seem relevant to me. i want to live in a society where freedom of expression is protected and stood up for.



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Cowardice or bravery is irrelevant to them, as are compassion and compromise towards their enemies. They're terrorists with their own agenda and only the correct key will possibly put a stop to their actions and drawing cartoons is certainly not the right key here.
i disagree. i think it's terribly important to them. they boast about it more than anything else. i would love to hear more about the right key though. what does it involve specifically... self censorship perhaps?



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What gives you the right to suggest that a citizen from another country should be deported from that country, especially when that citizen loves his country?
lol @ "what gives you the right...."

i really hope the irony isn't lost on you here

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You sound like an extremist full of bollocks, but then again most extremists can't see much beyond their own tunnel vision of hate anyway.
i don't think that saying we shouldn't back down from these thugs is all that extreme tbh. if you are going on about the deportation thing i already explained that was a hyperbolic rhetorical point but whatever



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..... and all of what you written here is nonsensical to me as well.
lol, alright.

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Old 01-12-2015, 08:40 AM   #230 (permalink)
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It didn't start with "extremists being unable to handle criticism". It started thousands of years ago, with people being intolerant towards cultures that were different from their own, creating feuds that exist to this day. Try growing up in Israel or the Gaza Strip, where both sides launch missiles at each other on a monthly basis. Try watching your family blown to pieces in front of your eyes, and not feeling a seething hatred towards the people you blame for their demise. Try growing up in an area that has virtually no economy, because crazy dictators have smashed everything to pieces in order to fill their pockets. This is a complicated problem that has existed for longer than you realize, and guess what? People have tried to solve it with violence. They have tried this approach for thousands of years, and it has only made things worse. So let's drop the "us versus them" mentality, and finally admit that all of humanity shares this bed called earth, so it isn't wise for us to keep crapping in it.
i really disagree. i think you are failing to take the extremists at their word. they say what they care about is islamic law. pure and simple. that's not me or the media or whoever else saying it, that's them. you can't actually blame it all on socioeconomic factors and imperialism without utterly disregarding the extremists' own message. the issues you cite are part of the cause, but only part. there is an ideological root at the core of their mentality that is a basic rejection of liberal values. i know that fact makes some of us uncomfortable but it is what it is.
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