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Old 04-19-2015, 04:29 AM   #121 (permalink)
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seems hard to compare the two incidents just based on the facts presented

the michael brown case got a lot of coverage because it seemed questionable as to whether the shooting was legit. i do think in the end that it was, but it wasn't clear at first. is that also the case with the other shooting or was it an open and shut legit shooting? cause i think those happen all the time and don't get sensationalized.

honestly though, i do see your point about the media narrative shaping people's views. would be interested in seeing some hard statistics on the matter rather than just comparing specific examples. all i know is my common sense and experience has me glad i'm white and non-thuggish each time i interact with the police.
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Old 04-19-2015, 04:44 AM   #122 (permalink)
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I think in some of these highly publicized cases they do end up being fairly open and shut, but people start holding candlelight vigils and complaining on the news before the case is investigated fully because of the narrative of racist cop guns down totally completely innocent and random person just because they're a different color.

Some of these cases.
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Old 04-19-2015, 07:52 AM   #123 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth View Post
seems hard to compare the two incidents just based on the facts presented

the michael brown case got a lot of coverage because it seemed questionable as to whether the shooting was legit. i do think in the end that it was, but it wasn't clear at first. is that also the case with the other shooting or was it an open and shut legit shooting? cause i think those happen all the time and don't get sensationalized.

honestly though, i do see your point about the media narrative shaping people's views. would be interested in seeing some hard statistics on the matter rather than just comparing specific examples. all i know is my common sense and experience has me glad i'm white and non-thuggish each time i interact with the police.
We've already brought up statistics:

Quote:
A widely publicized report in October 2014 by ProPublica, a leading investigative and data journalism outlet, concluded that young black males are 21 times more likely to be shot by police than their white counterparts: “The 1,217 deadly police shootings from 2010 to 2012 captured in the federal data show that blacks, age 15 to 19, were killed at a rate of 31.17 per million, while just 1.47 per million white males in that age range died at the hands of police.”

Excessive or reasonable force by police? Research on*law enforcement and racial conflict
It isn't just twice as likely for a Black man to be fatally shot by police officers than a White man. Not even three of four times more likely. It's twenty one times more likely. Think about that for a second.
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Last edited by Oriphiel; 04-19-2015 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 04-19-2015, 10:52 AM   #124 (permalink)
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JWB I honestly don't get how you can say what you say about "acting in a certain way" or whatever you said. Vis a vis the most recent episode, the guy ran away from the car. Now that's suspicious certainly but is there nothing in the police's minds these days other than shoot that ****er? Do they even think about doing anything else? Call for backup? Chase him? Fire in the air? No: this guy shot the fleeing black man EIGHT TIMES! Yeah he's being charged with murder as he should be, but again I say this is only because there is irrefutable evidence that can't be swept under the carpet or hushed up. If they could you can bet they would have.

So is the prevailing attitude now, if in doubt, shoot? If black, shoot?

Also, as to the examples of white guys being killed by cops, I never said it didn't happen, but it happens with far less frequency than it seems to to black men. There's definitely a pattern. I may be incredibly naive, but how can a country which elected a black man president for the first time in history allow and condone this? Is nobody putting down guidelines, warning cops, making them go to "re-education classes" or something? Just hoping it will stop? It won't. It seems to be ingrained in the MO now and it'll just keep happening.
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Old 04-19-2015, 01:09 PM   #125 (permalink)
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I'm curious if black people get killed by cops more frequently in areas that aren't riddled by violence, gangs, and drugs, or if the stats are skewed because of the all the ghettos inhabited by minorities.
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Old 04-19-2015, 01:18 PM   #126 (permalink)
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I'm curious if black people get killed by cops more frequently in areas that aren't riddled by violence, gangs, and drugs, or if the stats are skewed because of the all the ghettos inhabited by minorities.
This. It's pretty much impossible to discuss this as a white person without sounding racist.
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Old 04-19-2015, 01:21 PM   #127 (permalink)
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I'm curious if black people get killed by cops more frequently in areas that aren't riddled by violence, gangs, and drugs, or if the stats are skewed because of the all the ghettos inhabited by minorities.
This has been brought up as well, earlier in the thread:

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Excessive or reasonable force by police? Research on*law enforcement and racial conflict

Of note in this research literature is a 2003 paper, “Neighborhood Context and Police Use of Force,” that suggests police are more likely to employ force in higher-crime neighborhoods generally, complicating any easy interpretation of race as the decisive factor in explaining police forcefulness. The researchers, William Terrill of Northeastern University and Michael D. Reisig of Michigan State University, found that “officers are significantly more likely to use higher levels of force when encountering criminal suspects in high crime areas and neighborhoods with high levels of concentrated disadvantage independent of suspect behavior and other statistical controls.” Terrill and Reisig explore several hypothetical explanations and ultimately conclude:

"Embedded within each of these potential explanations is the influence of key sociodemographic variables such as race, class, gender, and age. As the results show, when these factors are considered at the encounter level, they are significant. However, the race (i.e., minority) effect is mediated by neighborhood context. Perhaps officers do not simply label minority suspects according to what Skolnick (1994) termed “symbolic assailants,” as much as they label distressed socioeconomic neighborhoods as potential sources of conflict."
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Old 04-19-2015, 03:22 PM   #128 (permalink)
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Old 04-19-2015, 03:47 PM   #129 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Chula Vista View Post
Ya know, when ya haven't seen one of these Soulflower black vs. white debates in a while you kinda forget what they are like.

Oh, and BTW. The media fules her fire by playing major bias in reporting this stuff.

Critics see racial 'double standard' in coverage of police shootings - Washington Times
Lololol Washington Times

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Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls View Post
I'm curious if black people get killed by cops more frequently in areas that aren't riddled by violence, gangs, and drugs, or if the stats are skewed because of the all the ghettos inhabited by minorities.
But I mean the neighborhood stuff is also about race. There are a lot of complex factors obviously, but the big reason that more violent neighborhoods tend to be more heavily minority is centuries of oppression, most recently including decades of housing discrimination.

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I'll re-post this, because I find it very interesting, and I'd like to hear what you all make of it:

So, is it a viable option? Do you see any flaws or downsides with it? Do you think that it might have any effects that the study possibly didn't account for? Spill!
It doesn't get at the root of the problem. Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote a really smart piece dealing with this a couple days ago:
Spoiler for Wall o' Text:
There is a tendency, when examining police shootings, to focus on tactics at the expense of strategy. One interrogates the actions of the officer in the moment trying to discern their mind-state. We ask ourselves, "Were they justified in shooting?" But, in this time of heightened concern around the policing, a more essential question might be, "Were we justified in sending them?" At some point, Americans decided that the best answer to every social ill lay in the power of the criminal-justice system. Vexing social problems—homelessness, drug use, the inability to support one's children, mental illness—are presently solved by sending in men and women who specialize in inspiring fear and ensuring compliance. Fear and compliance have their place, but it can't be every place.

When Walter Scott fled from the North Charleston police, he was not merely fleeing Michael Thomas Slager, he was attempting to flee incarceration. He was doing this because we have decided that the criminal-justice system is the best tool for dealing with men who can't, or won't, support their children at a level that we deem satisfactory. Peel back the layers of most of the recent police shootings that have captured attention and you will find a broad societal problem that we have looked at, thrown our hands up, and said to the criminal-justice system, "You deal with this."

Last week I was in Madison, Wisconsin, where I was informed of the killing of Tony Robinson by a police officer. Robinson was high on mushrooms. The police were summoned after he chased a car. The police killed him. A month earlier, I'd been thinking a lot about Anthony Hill, who was mentally ill. One day last month, Hill stripped off his clothes and started jumping off of his balcony. The police were called. They killed him. I can't see the image of Tamir Rice aimlessly kicking snow outside the Cleveland projects and think of how little we invest in occupying the minds of children. A bored Tamir Rice decided to occupy his time with a airsoft gun. He was killed.

There is of course another way. Was Walter Scott's malfunctioning third-brake light really worth a police encounter? Should the state repeatedly incarcerate him for not paying child support? Do we really want people trained to fight crime dealing with someone who's ceased taking medication? Does the presence of a gun really improve the chance of peacefully resolving a drug episode? In this sense, the police—and the idea of police reform—are a symptom of something larger. The idea that all social problems can, and should, be resolved by sheer power is not limited to the police. In Atlanta, a problem that began with the poor state of public schools has now ending by feeding more people into the maw of the carceral state.

There are many problems with expecting people trained in crime-fighting to be social workers. In the black community, there is a problem of legitimacy. In his 1953 book The Quest For Community, conservative Robert Nisbet distinguishes between "power" and "authority." Authority, claims Nisbet, is a matter of relationships, allegiances, and association and is "based ultimately upon the consent of those under it." Power, on the other hand, is "external" and "based upon force." Power exists where allegiances have decayed or never existed at all. "Power arises," writes Nesbit, "only when authority breaks down."

African Americans, for most of our history, have lived under the power of the criminal-justice system, not its authority. The dominant feature in the relationship between African Americans and their country is plunder, and plunder has made police authority an impossibility, and police power a necessity. The skepticism of Officer Darren Wilson's account in the shooting of Michael Brown, for instance, emerges out of lack of police authority—which is to say it comes from a belief that the police are as likely to lie as any other citizen. When African American parents give their children "The Talk," they do not urge them to make no sudden movements in the presence of police out of a profound respect for the democratic ideal, but out of the knowledge that police can, and will, kill them.

But for most Americans, the police—and the criminal-justice system—are figures of authority. The badge does not merely represent rule via lethal force, but rule through consent and legitimacy rooted in nobility. This is why whenever a liberal politician offers even the mildest criticism of the police, they must add that "the majority of officers are good, noble people." Taken at face value this is not much of a defense—like a restaurant claiming that on most nights, there really are no rats in the dining room. But interpreted less literally the line is not meant to defend police officers, but to communicate the message that the speaker is not questioning police authority, which is to say the authority of our justice system, which is to say—in a democracy—the authority of the people themselves.

Thus it was not surprising, last week, to see that the mayor of North Charleston ordered the use of body cameras for all officers. Body cameras are the least divisive and least invasive step toward reforming the practices of the men and women we permit to kill in our names. Body cameras are helpful in police work, but they are also helpful in avoiding a deeper conversation over what it means to keep whole swaths of America under the power of the justice system, as opposed to the authority of other branches of civil society.

Police officers fight crime. Police officers are neither case-workers, nor teachers, nor mental-health professionals, nor drug counselors. One of the great hallmarks of the past forty years of American domestic policy is a broad disinterest in that difference. The problem of restoring police authority is not really a problem of police authority, but a problem of democratic authority. It is what happens when you decide to solve all your problems with a hammer. To ask, at this late date, why the police seem to have lost their minds is to ask why our hammers are so bad at installing air-conditioners. More it is to ignore the state of the house all around us. A reform that begins with the officer on the beat is not reform at all. It's avoidance. It's a continuance of the American preference for considering the actions of bad individuals, as opposed to the function and intention of systems.
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Old 04-19-2015, 04:28 PM   #130 (permalink)
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There is no point in trying to post serious stimulating topics such as this here because the posters here don't care about this issue because it does not directly affect them. In addition, the posters here are very racist, immature and ignorant.

Personally, I think its a good "start" but there a lot of drawbacks to this as well.

What if the police officer sabotages the camera? What if the camera breaks or gets contaminated and messes up the footage?

I don't think cameras should be in the hands of the officer because that gives them control to manipulate the footage.
Um, I started the thread and I certainly care (obviously) but no, it does not DIRECTLY affect me as I don't live in the USA and am not a minority. However if you think it doesn't EMOTIONALLY effect me when I see it on the news, again and again, then you don't know me at all. Just because it isn't happening to me personally does not mean I can't get damn angry about it.
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Ya know, when ya haven't seen one of these Soulflower black vs. white debates in a while you kinda forget what they are like.

Oh, and BTW. The media fules her fire by playing major bias in reporting this stuff.

Critics see racial 'double standard' in coverage of police shootings - Washington Times
In fairness, it's my thread not hers but you did expect this. For once I agree with pretty much everything she says as the facts more or less back this situation up. If a white person was getting killed by a black cop more often you can be sure it would be headline news.

The fact is that black people in America ARE being discriminated against, hence my "Doctor King" point, and although I'm no fan of hers I think it's unfair of you to say that Soulflower is twisting the facts or making things up when the news stories clearly back her claims up. Obviously this thread was weighted on the side of white cop/black kid violence, that was my intention. I'm not sure why so many are trying to either deny that's happening or make it into something other than what it is, clear racial profiling, possibly tacitly sanctioned?

Also, if you want robots to run the world...
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