Death vs.Life

RoxyRollah · 04-19-2015, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

dunno i think roxy has an interesting point tbh

Thanks man, I have spent quite a long time thinking about this, as I am pro death. I am pro death in the event of brutal crimes. The ones that involve children, and just unspeakable crimes against others. I think it's ludicrous to say well no that's barbaric. Because what they have done to their victims is a thousand times worse then what the governing state is going to do them. People don't think twice about putting down a rabid dog, because it has brain rot. But a rabid human with brain rot, and soul rot, we kinda parade around and say silly **** like we are no better then they are. Well it's not a matter of being better, it's a matter of paying the for crime. And condemning someone to a life where they spend 23 hours a day alone in a cell is far more barbaric then hitting the reset button. Madness is a far crueler mistress then 5 minutes on a gurney being injected with the proper mixture of poison. I don't understand imprisoning them saying it's less cruel. Lets be real with it.

Edit: Also a lot of ppl on death row never apologize for the atrocities the have committed and hoot and holler and appeal and appeal and act like babies. Man you knew you were in a state that has this penalty for capitol murder. Man up suck it up and go down like a man. Same thing for the person that steals my tv. Man up suck it up go do yer stint in the jail and don't do it again.

The Batlord · 04-20-2015, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

Thanks man, I have spent quite a long time thinking about this, as I am pro death. I am pro death in the event of brutal crimes. The ones that involve children, and just unspeakable crimes against others. I think it's ludicrous to say well no that's barbaric. Because what they have done to their victims is a thousand times worse then what the governing state is going to do them. People don't think twice about putting down a rabid dog, because it has brain rot. But a rabid human with brain rot, and soul rot, we kinda parade around and say silly **** like we are no better then they are. Well it's not a matter of being better, it's a matter of paying the for crime. And condemning someone to a life where they spend 23 hours a day alone in a cell is far more barbaric then hitting the reset button. Madness is a far crueler mistress then 5 minutes on a gurney being injected with the proper mixture of poison. I don't understand imprisoning them saying it's less cruel. Lets be real with it.

Edit: Also a lot of ppl on death row never apologize for the atrocities the have committed and hoot and holler and appeal and appeal and act like babies. Man you knew you were in a state that has this penalty for capitol murder. Man up suck it up and go down like a man. Same thing for the person that steals my tv. Man up suck it up go do yer stint in the jail and don't do it again.

Way I sees it, if someone is such a threat to society that it warrants killing them, then their psychology is probably worth studying. So instead of the death penalty, just stick them in a maximum security nuthouse and use them for study until the day they die of natural causes. There's so much we don't know about psychopaths, and so few times we actually get our hands on a confirmed one, that it's a waste of resources to just flush them down the drain.

Oriphiel · 04-20-2015, 06:52 AM

The death penalty can cost far more than life incarceration. On average, the trials alone cost millions of dollars more than trials where the defense seeks life incarceration, ranging from two to eight times more expensive.

Costs of the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center

Add that to the normal costs of maintaining a prisoner for years (as it usually takes many years for the execution to happen, TIME ON DEATH ROW | Death Penalty Information Center) in death row, and taking the subsequent appeals and investigations into account, and the costs become astronomical. Here's an interesting collection of professionals in the criminal justice world and their opinions on the death penalty versus life incarceration. (Does the Death Penalty Cost Less Than Life in Prison without Parole? - Death Penalty - ProCon.org) And actually, there are a few proponents of the death sentence who bring up good points, and that the costs don't have to be so high and can be reformed. There's even a proponent of the death penalty who claims that it costs less in the end (even though he claims this based on the information of one study, which has been refuted by the vast majority of studies into the costs of the death penalty, and really isn't even a study since it's basically guesswork as to what it will cost in the future rather than an examination of what it costs now). Read through the opinions, and decide what you believe.

DwnWthVwls · 04-20-2015, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

The death penalty can cost far more than life incarceration. On average, the trials alone cost millions of dollars more than trials where the defense seeks life incarceration, ranging from two to eight times more expensive.

Costs of the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center

Add that to the normal costs of maintaining a prisoner for years (as it usually takes many years for the execution to happen, TIME ON DEATH ROW | Death Penalty Information Center) in death row, and taking the subsequent appeals and investigations into account, and the costs become astronomical. Here's an interesting collection of professionals in the criminal justice world and their opinions on the death penalty versus life incarceration. (Does the Death Penalty Cost Less Than Life in Prison without Parole? - Death Penalty - ProCon.org) And actually, there are a few proponents of the death sentence who bring up good points, and that the costs don't have to be so high and can be reformed. There's even a proponent of the death penalty who claims that it costs less in the end (even though he claims this based on the information of one study, which has been refuted by the vast majority of studies into the costs of the death penalty, and really isn't even a study since it's basically guesswork as to what it will cost in the future rather than an examination of what it costs now). Read through the opinions, and decide what you believe.

And their last meal is way more expensive than regular prison food. What's with that ish? :P

RoxyRollah · 04-20-2015, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Way I sees it, if someone is such a threat to society that it warrants killing them, then their psychology is probably worth studying. So instead of the death penalty, just stick them in a maximum security nuthouse and use them for study until the day they die of natural causes. There's so much we don't know about psychopaths, and so few times we actually get our hands on a confirmed one, that it's a waste of resources to just flush them down the drain.

Yet, there are tons of stuidies done showing there is no real difference between theirbrains and ours.
The problem is usually lack of empathy and emtions,less likely its brain chemistry. So they get to spebd the remainder of their lives playing with Lincoln logs and coloring,how is that a punishment?

Oriphiel · 04-20-2015, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

Yet, there are tons of stuidies done showing there is no real difference between theirbrains and ours.

Not true. For example, most experts agree that damage to the brain's frontal lobe is one of the leading similarities that the majority of murderers and serial killers have. There are other things that have been identified as pre-disposers to a life of violence as well, and not all of them have to do with someone's brain/neurochemical receptors; exposure to violence at a young age, particularly of the sexual variety, often influences people towards living in social isolation, as well as having violent tendencies. But there are so many parts of the brain that, when damaged, can cause someone to act erratically, and it's very important for experts to study the minds of killers so that they can identify just what led them to such behavior (whether because of nature, nurture, or both).

Sources: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-serial-killer, Predestined Serial Killers | Serendip Studio, Criminal Profiling: The Psychology of a Serial Killer, Inside the Mind of a Killer - ABC News

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

Oh I am well aware of the cost of execution. We do a lot of crazier **** than that, that costs way more everyday.
It doesn't make me advocate a life sentence. .Im sorry, it just doesn't. Its the job of the governing state to keep the rest of its inhabitants safe, And like I said before, well kill a rabid dog and not think twice about it.But a person,that can do more damage then an entire pack of rabid animals well lock them up and throw away the key.
It costs buocoupe money to house them till they die of natural or unnaturally die.So I fail to see not executing some one over a budget clause.

Edit: Also I don't need to read through and decide what I believe dahling, because I have said it 57 times. I am pro death in the event of horrific cases involving, children, rapes, and gruesome violent deaths.

And yet, as I showed in my sources, it has been almost unanimously proven to cost millions more to execute them than to imprison them for life. And those millions come directly from the taxes that you pay. It's a waste of time and money, and there are only two defenses that it's proponents have: "But some people just deserve to die!" and "Imprisoning someone for life is cruel and madness-inducing! Show them mercy!" The first is pretty pointless, as life without parole is more than sufficient to keep the so-called "unforgivable monsters" off the street. And the second is foolish because it puts words into the prisoners mouths; who are you to decide what they would prefer? Why not just let those who are convicted to life without parole have the option to an execution, rather than forcing them to live or die according to your morals?

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 04-20-2015, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Way I sees it, if someone is such a threat to society that it warrants killing them, then their psychology is probably worth studying. So instead of the death penalty, just stick them in a maximum security nuthouse and use them for study until the day they die of natural causes. There's so much we don't know about psychopaths, and so few times we actually get our hands on a confirmed one, that it's a waste of resources to just flush them down the drain.

actually, i think you make a good point as well

i think roxy is approaching this more from a perspective of justice rather than research. but both approaches have their merits and downsides.

edit - overall though i'd say the logical thing to do with a psychopath who committed a murder or whatever is have them do a thorough study of him and all that, and when the work on him is done then kill him.

also it sounds barbaric but i've always thought a simple way to execute people is just shoot them in the head. i don't see how that's any less humane than an injection or whatever and it's a hell of a lot cheaper.

RoxyRollah · 04-20-2015, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

actually, i think you make a good point as well

i think roxy is approaching this more from a perspective of justice rather than research. but both approaches have their merits and downsides.

Yup. I am not saying my perspective is the correct one at all, it's just how I feel. I started this thread, because I wanted to know how everybody else felt about it, not have stats jammed down my throat. I didn't ask what the stats said, I asked how you guys feel.

The Batlord · 04-20-2015, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

actually, i think you make a good point as well

i think roxy is approaching this more from a perspective of justice rather than research. but both approaches have their merits and downsides.

edit - overall though i'd say the logical thing to do with a psychopath who committed a murder or whatever is have them do a thorough study of him and all that, and when the work on him is done then kill him.

also it sounds barbaric but i've always thought a simple way to execute people is just shoot them in the head. i don't see how that's any less humane than an injection or whatever and it's a hell of a lot cheaper.

I'm certainly not opposed to killing them, as someone like Jeffrey Dahmer is just so aberrant that their continued existence is of no non-scientific benefit to anyone, while also being extremely dangerous to society in general. But I also don't know that you could ever know when you'd learned everything you could learn from him.

There's just so much to be learned, and so much that may or may not be possible to accomplish by further study (e.g. better diagnosis, actual rehabilitation, developing more effective crime fighting techniques to capture serial killers, learning what red flags to look for in children at risk of developing into psychopaths and how to treat them, etc) that to simply decide that you've learned everything that there is to learn about an individual would be premature.

I'm not opposed to executing the most dangerous serial killers, but the theoretical benefits to their study are such that I am in effect arguing against the death penalty for them.

**Janszoon** · 04-19-2015, 10:54 PM

I died a few years ago. So I guess that's where I am.

04-20-2015, 06:52 AM	#3 (permalink)
Oriphiel Ask me how! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: The States Posts: 5,354	The death penalty can cost far more than life incarceration. On average, the trials alone cost millions of dollars more than trials where the defense seeks life incarceration, ranging from two to eight times more expensive. Costs of the Death Penalty \| Death Penalty Information Center Add that to the normal costs of maintaining a prisoner for years (as it usually takes many years for the execution to happen, TIME ON DEATH ROW \| Death Penalty Information Center) in death row, and taking the subsequent appeals and investigations into account, and the costs become astronomical. Here's an interesting collection of professionals in the criminal justice world and their opinions on the death penalty versus life incarceration. (Does the Death Penalty Cost Less Than Life in Prison without Parole? - Death Penalty - ProCon.org) And actually, there are a few proponents of the death sentence who bring up good points, and that the costs don't have to be so high and can be reformed. There's even a proponent of the death penalty who claims that it costs less in the end (even though he claims this based on the information of one study, which has been refuted by the vast majority of studies into the costs of the death penalty, and really isn't even a study since it's basically guesswork as to what it will cost in the future rather than an examination of what it costs now). Read through the opinions, and decide what you believe. __________________ ---------------------- \|---Mic's Albums---\| ---------------------- ----------------------------- \|---Deafbox Industries---\| -----------------------------

04-19-2015, 10:54 PM	#10 (permalink)
Janszoon Mate, Spawn & Die Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Rapping Community Posts: 24,593	I died a few years ago. So I guess that's where I am. __________________ A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man Time & Place 25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die last.fm