The Refugee crisis

**Janszoon** · 11-23-2015, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Well they were. They weren't born in France, they emigrated there. So they're immigrants. Aren't they? I mean, names like they're putting out on the news, they're not French names surely...

They weren't immigrants. The attackers they've identified were born in France and Belgium. I'm sure they aren't only people born in those places who don't have ethnically French names.

The Batlord · 11-23-2015, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

They weren't immigrants. The attackers they've identified were born in France and Belgium. I'm sure they aren't only people born in those places who don't have ethnically French names.

Are there any reports as to the "social status" of the attackers? Were they the kind of ghetto middle easterners who are oppressed by the gendarmes, educated extremists like the 9/11 attackers, or what?

Trollheart · 11-23-2015, 03:12 PM

Well I know one of them was definitely on their watch list, not that it helped them stop him. The brother of this one that's supposedly still on the run is making all sorts of claims, like the guy was supposed to blow himself up but had a last-second change of heart, and he'd (the brother) like him to surrender himself as he says he would rather his brother was in jail than in a cemetery.

I must say, I feel the reverse. What are French jails like anyway? They stormed the Bastille, you know, and they were just peasants!

Seriously though, I doubt they're like the American supermax or whatever yaz have over there.

The Batlord · 11-23-2015, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Well I know one of them was definitely on their watch list, not that it helped them stop him. The brother of this one that's supposedly still on the run is making all sorts of claims, like the guy was supposed to blow himself up but had a last-second change of heart, and he'd (the brother) like him to surrender himself as he says he would rather his brother was in jail than in a cemetery.

I must say, I feel the reverse. What are French jails like anyway? They stormed the Bastille, you know, and they were just peasants!

Seriously though, I doubt they're like the American supermax or whatever yaz have over there.

I don't even know what this post means.

Trollheart · 11-23-2015, 05:12 PM

It's pretty clear, man. You must be really wasted.

@ Frown and Jansz: what you say may all be true, but unfortunately it's all in the perception. People in France are more likely to trust a neighbour named say Dupont or Chevalier than they will one named maybe Abdullah. Remember what happened in WW2 with the Japanese Americans? People are bound to start re-evaluating people they know who have Middle Eastern names, and that's definitely going to bleed into the recent goodwill towards immigrants, and change people's mind, especially in France and Belgium. It will probably also, as Batty mentioned, give some extra weight to the nationalist/far right parties in Europe, as they use this as an excuse, be it informed or not, to deny "bloody foreigners" entry across their borders.

**Frownland** · 11-23-2015, 05:23 PM

Yup. So what was your point?

**Janszoon** · 11-23-2015, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

It's pretty clear, man. You must be really wasted.

@ Frown and Jansz: what you say may all be true, but unfortunately it's all in the perception. People in France are more likely to trust a neighbour named say Dupont or Chevalier than they will one named maybe Abdullah. Remember what happened in WW2 with the Japanese Americans? People are bound to start re-evaluating people they know who have Middle Eastern names, and that's definitely going to bleed into the recent goodwill towards immigrants, and change people's mind, especially in France and Belgium. It will probably also, as Batty mentioned, give some extra weight to the nationalist/far right parties in Europe, as they use this as an excuse, be it informed or not, to deny "bloody foreigners" entry across their borders.

Yes, of course these attacks will rile up the xenophobes. I think everyone is well aware of that, but to echo Frowny: what was your point?

Trollheart · 11-23-2015, 06:51 PM

I think the point is clear. I was urging countries like ours to take in refugees, and now it would seem that there's going to be a rethink on that. People (govts) will be looking at this not so much from a humanitarian standpoint, but from a security issue. It's terribly sad for all those who have been displaced, and it changes the whole game as everyone's mindset will now be turned towards protection of their populace rather than offering shelter, which is something you can't blame them for, but it's sad either way.

Not so much a point as a comment, an observation on the impact the Paris attacks will have on the refugee crisis.

Chula Vista · 11-28-2015, 02:18 PM

Been thinking about this a lot since the Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shootings yesterday, where one of the dead was a cop. The shooter, of course, is a Wonder Bread White Christian (WBWC from here on out) dude who's mad that women have rights over their bodies. And that one of those rights is terminating an unwanted pregnancy.

(life begins when you suck in air for the first time IMO. It's ****ing whackjob to think that a piece of sperm merging with an equally gross piece of female mucous equals immediate life.)

More FB posts this morning from WBWC about how Syrian refugees will destroy this country. It's all about TERRORISM!!!

Wish I could force every single one of these bigots to come to terms with the fact their ancestors and peers have murdered so many more people than any Muslim extremist could ever hope for.

****, Eric Rudolph was basically a pussy suicide bomber. As was Timmy McVeigh. The ****ing irony is killing me.

Columbus?
Custer?
Italian Mafia?
Irish Mafia?
KKK?
Skinhead Gangs?
Biker Gangs?

etc.

**Goofle** · 11-28-2015, 06:55 PM

There's nothing wrong with bringing in as many refugees as you can handle, the issue has always been the vetting process. Are we bringing in families/people that simply want to leave because of the state their country is in, or are we bringing in basically anybody from those countries without really questioning who it is?

The latter seems to be the truth from what I gather.

Whilst I would never be against humanitarian efforts to help those in need, you do have to draw a line. If you are bringing in so many people that your own economy cannot sustain it, there's a problem. Regardless of the race or religion that these people are, you simply cannot just open the floodgates and hope all will be well.

I don't want to get deep into the subject of Islamist extremism because it seems to be quite a touchy area around here, but I will say that you cannot ignore the very real problem that the religion seems to bring wherever it lands.

11-23-2015, 03:12 PM	#113 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	Well I know one of them was definitely on their watch list, not that it helped them stop him. The brother of this one that's supposedly still on the run is making all sorts of claims, like the guy was supposed to blow himself up but had a last-second change of heart, and he'd (the brother) like him to surrender himself as he says he would rather his brother was in jail than in a cemetery. I must say, I feel the reverse. What are French jails like anyway? They stormed the Bastille, you know, and they were just peasants! Seriously though, I doubt they're like the American supermax or whatever yaz have over there. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

11-23-2015, 05:12 PM	#115 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	It's pretty clear, man. You must be really wasted. @ Frown and Jansz: what you say may all be true, but unfortunately it's all in the perception. People in France are more likely to trust a neighbour named say Dupont or Chevalier than they will one named maybe Abdullah. Remember what happened in WW2 with the Japanese Americans? People are bound to start re-evaluating people they know who have Middle Eastern names, and that's definitely going to bleed into the recent goodwill towards immigrants, and change people's mind, especially in France and Belgium. It will probably also, as Batty mentioned, give some extra weight to the nationalist/far right parties in Europe, as they use this as an excuse, be it informed or not, to deny "bloody foreigners" entry across their borders. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

11-23-2015, 05:23 PM	#116 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	Yup. So what was your point? __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

11-23-2015, 06:51 PM	#118 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	I think the point is clear. I was urging countries like ours to take in refugees, and now it would seem that there's going to be a rethink on that. People (govts) will be looking at this not so much from a humanitarian standpoint, but from a security issue. It's terribly sad for all those who have been displaced, and it changes the whole game as everyone's mindset will now be turned towards protection of their populace rather than offering shelter, which is something you can't blame them for, but it's sad either way. Not so much a point as a comment, an observation on the impact the Paris attacks will have on the refugee crisis. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

11-28-2015, 02:18 PM	#119 (permalink)
Chula Vista Toasted Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SoCal by way of Boston Posts: 11,332	Been thinking about this a lot since the Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shootings yesterday, where one of the dead was a cop. The shooter, of course, is a Wonder Bread White Christian (WBWC from here on out) dude who's mad that women have rights over their bodies. And that one of those rights is terminating an unwanted pregnancy. (life begins when you suck in air for the first time IMO. It's **ing whackjob to think that a piece of sperm merging with an equally gross piece of female mucous equals immediate life.) More FB posts this morning from WBWC about how Syrian refugees will destroy this country. It's all about TERRORISM!!! Wish I could force every single one of these bigots to come to terms with the fact their ancestors and peers have murdered so many more people than any Muslim extremist could ever hope for. , Eric Rudolph was basically a pussy suicide bomber. As was Timmy McVeigh. The **ing irony is killing me. Columbus? Custer? Italian Mafia? Irish Mafia? KKK? Skinhead Gangs? Biker Gangs? etc. __________________ “The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”