Is "Avengers: Age of Ultron" sexist?

Oriphiel · 05-23-2015, 02:35 PM

This is probably one of the more odd current events as of late, and it's definitely not a huge issue, but it's nevertheless something to talk about. I recently heard that people are bashing and boycotting the new Avengers movie for being "sexist", particularly because of a scene with Black Widow where she reveals her past, including when she was sterilized at a young age, and then calling herself a "monster". How do you all feel about this? Are people greatly overreacting? Has the character of Black Widow and that specific scene been misinterpreted?

Here are some opinions online:

It's Sexist: An Open Letter to Joss Whedon from a Disappointed Feminis | Women and Hollywood , â€˜Avengers: Age of Ultronâ€™sâ€™ Black Widow Disgrace - The Daily Beast

It's Not Sexist: Avengers: Age of Ultron, Sexism and Hollywood , Ruffalo defends 'Avengers' director over sexism complaints - NY Daily News

**Frownland** · 05-23-2015, 02:40 PM

It was made by a male therefore sexist.

Frownland out.

Oriphiel · 05-23-2015, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

It was made by a male therefore sexist.

Frownland out.

/thread

LoathsomePete · 05-23-2015, 02:52 PM

I don't really know if it's sexist or not but it is a kind of annoying continuation of the trend of female characters wherein their only two story points seem to be "who is she sleeping with" and "would she make a good mom". I think it's also compounded by the fact that there are no toys of her for younger female fans or a solo movie in the works. Personally though, I think Black Widow works better as a supporting character and I'd be far more interested in a She-Hulk, Ms. Marvel, Misty Knight/ Colleen Wing movie or TV series.

I think there's also the fact that Avengers: Age of Ultron is the biggest movie of the year right now and it's an easy way to get eyes on your thoughts if you relate them together. Then of course there's just the people that seem to be nothing but professionally outraged on the internet. I wonder if there's a site where you can buy package deals, like for $100 you get 1000 people making angry rants on Twitter about something you don't like, because if I might need to get in on the ground floor of that...

Oriphiel · 05-23-2015, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoathsomePete

I don't really know if it's sexist or not but it is a kind of annoying continuation of the trend of female characters wherein their only two story points seem to be "who is she sleeping with" and "would she make a good mom". I think it's also compounded by the fact that there are no toys of her for younger female fans or a solo movie in the works. Personally though, I think Black Widow works better as a supporting character and I'd be far more interested in a She-Hulk, Ms. Marvel, Misty Knight/ Colleen Wing movie or TV series.

I think there's also the fact that Avengers: Age of Ultron is the biggest movie of the year right now and it's an easy way to get eyes on your thoughts if you relate them together. Then of course there's just the people that seem to be nothing but professionally outraged on the internet. I wonder if there's a site where you can buy package deals, like for $100 you get 1000 people making angry rants on Twitter about something you don't like, because if I might need to get in on the ground floor of that...

That's pretty much my view of the situation as well. And I agree, a She-Hulk movie has been a long time coming.

**Frownland** · 05-23-2015, 03:55 PM

Suggested title change:

Is 'Avengers: Age of Ultron' Based on Tired Cliches?

Oriphiel · 05-23-2015, 04:15 PM

You know, thinking back on it, maybe Black Widow wasn't calling herself a "monster" specifically because she couldn't have babies, but more because she was basically raised to be a ruthless killer with no sense of identity or humanity.

Another interpretation is that maybe she's just more of a flawed character than people realize. People keep assuming that just because a character says something, it automatically reflects the beliefs of the person who wrote the dialogue, when it could just be to reflect the flawed beliefs of the character rather than some general statement regarding every single person belonging to a group/gender. Black Widow basically hates herself, so it makes sense that she would degrade herself even in irrational ways and with irrational thoughts. She thinks less of herself for her past, for things that happened to her that were out of her control, and maybe even don't really matter all that much. For example, there are plenty of guys in real life who are sterile, and who think of themselves as being "less of a man" for their condition, and it's a very complicated thing to have to deal with. But if I made a movie that featured a character that deals with that same feeling, to give depth to their personality, it wouldn't be fair for people to just assume that I as a movie maker think all men who can't make babies aren't really men, you know?

Or maybe it was just some spotty dialogue, and i'm overthinking things.

The Batlord · 05-23-2015, 04:28 PM

God damn it, Sansa. She's clearly gone off the rails after getting banned. She is our Ultron.

Oriphiel · 05-23-2015, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

God damn it, Sansa. She's clearly gone off the rails after getting banned. She is our Ultron.

I would laugh my ass off if she was secretly behind the outrage.

grtwhtgrvty · 05-24-2015, 04:25 AM

Obviously the star of the movie is going to defend it. I don't think it's misogynistic but it is objectively sexist. I don't think it deserves outrage. Like there are women being raped and beaten and used and you're going to go into a tumblr outrage because the avengers movie subconsciously enforces gender stereotyping? That's the problem with SJW culture -- they are more keen on addressing things like this as opposed to much more serious, life threatening and expression destroying oppression and systematic gender control.

This is so meaningless in the grand scheme of things but I think people are mad because it's yet another casual example of how ****ed up and ingrained the patriarchal mindset is.

TL;DR it's stupid and ****ed up but there are bigger fish to fry. That being said I appreciate that we live in a society where things like this are paid attention to. I think it shows a sense of progression because 30 years ago noone would have cared.

05-23-2015, 02:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
Oriphiel Ask me how! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: The States Posts: 5,355	Is "Avengers: Age of Ultron" sexist? This is probably one of the more odd current events as of late, and it's definitely not a huge issue, but it's nevertheless something to talk about. I recently heard that people are bashing and boycotting the new Avengers movie for being "sexist", particularly because of a scene with Black Widow where she reveals her past, including when she was sterilized at a young age, and then calling herself a "monster". How do you all feel about this? Are people greatly overreacting? Has the character of Black Widow and that specific scene been misinterpreted? Here are some opinions online: It's Sexist: An Open Letter to Joss Whedon from a Disappointed Feminis \| Women and Hollywood , â€˜Avengers: Age of Ultronâ€™sâ€™ Black Widow Disgrace - The Daily Beast It's Not Sexist: Avengers: Age of Ultron, Sexism and Hollywood , Ruffalo defends 'Avengers' director over sexism complaints - NY Daily News

05-23-2015, 02:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	It was made by a male therefore sexist. Frownland out. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

05-23-2015, 02:52 PM	#4 (permalink)
LoathsomePete Cardboard Box Realtor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Hobb's End Posts: 7,648	I don't really know if it's sexist or not but it is a kind of annoying continuation of the trend of female characters wherein their only two story points seem to be "who is she sleeping with" and "would she make a good mom". I think it's also compounded by the fact that there are no toys of her for younger female fans or a solo movie in the works. Personally though, I think Black Widow works better as a supporting character and I'd be far more interested in a She-Hulk, Ms. Marvel, Misty Knight/ Colleen Wing movie or TV series. I think there's also the fact that Avengers: Age of Ultron is the biggest movie of the year right now and it's an easy way to get eyes on your thoughts if you relate them together. Then of course there's just the people that seem to be nothing but professionally outraged on the internet. I wonder if there's a site where you can buy package deals, like for $100 you get 1000 people making angry rants on Twitter about something you don't like, because if I might need to get in on the ground floor of that... __________________ Last.FM 101 Albums That May Not Change Your Life, But I Really Like And You Might Too

05-23-2015, 03:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	Suggested title change: Is 'Avengers: Age of Ultron' Based on Tired Cliches? __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

05-23-2015, 04:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
Oriphiel Ask me how! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: The States Posts: 5,355	You know, thinking back on it, maybe Black Widow wasn't calling herself a "monster" specifically because she couldn't have babies, but more because she was basically raised to be a ruthless killer with no sense of identity or humanity. Another interpretation is that maybe she's just more of a flawed character than people realize. People keep assuming that just because a character says something, it automatically reflects the beliefs of the person who wrote the dialogue, when it could just be to reflect the flawed beliefs of the character rather than some general statement regarding every single person belonging to a group/gender. Black Widow basically hates herself, so it makes sense that she would degrade herself even in irrational ways and with irrational thoughts. She thinks less of herself for her past, for things that happened to her that were out of her control, and maybe even don't really matter all that much. For example, there are plenty of guys in real life who are sterile, and who think of themselves as being "less of a man" for their condition, and it's a very complicated thing to have to deal with. But if I made a movie that featured a character that deals with that same feeling, to give depth to their personality, it wouldn't be fair for people to just assume that I as a movie maker think all men who can't make babies aren't really men, you know? Or maybe it was just some spotty dialogue, and i'm overthinking things.

05-24-2015, 04:25 AM	#10 (permalink)
grtwhtgrvty jiojoijoi Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 398	Obviously the star of the movie is going to defend it. I don't think it's misogynistic but it is objectively sexist. I don't think it deserves outrage. Like there are women being raped and beaten and used and you're going to go into a tumblr outrage because the avengers movie subconsciously enforces gender stereotyping? That's the problem with SJW culture -- they are more keen on addressing things like this as opposed to much more serious, life threatening and expression destroying oppression and systematic gender control. This is so meaningless in the grand scheme of things but I think people are mad because it's yet another casual example of how **ed up and ingrained the patriarchal mindset is. TL;DR it's stupid and **ed up but there are bigger fish to fry. That being said I appreciate that we live in a society where things like this are paid attention to. I think it shows a sense of progression because 30 years ago noone would have cared.