I'm aware that economic opportunity is the primary driver, but I do think climate plays a role, especially if your climatized to being in a warmer region. (Bulgaria, Albania ect)

As I've explained to Monkey Tennis, if Scotland were to separate, their GDP would be significantly reduced in size. Outside of oil, Scotland isn't going to be much of an economic driver once its absorbed by the EU.

Thus, I just don't see many Eastern Europeans emigrating to the region. They'll have to attract immigrants from places where people will see a significant boost in their standard of living.

Yes I have a few Italian friends and they are pretty strict on the immigration, but they tell me that migrants from Eastern Europe while not embraced, or more or less tolerated in the major cities.

perhaps you should bring this case to a shariah court... i have a gut feeling they'll find a way to streamline this one through

Based in this logic everybody from a warm climate would only be emigrating to places like Australia and New Zealand. Whereas the proven reality is that just as many people from hot countries will move to Canada and Northern Europe as well, which shows that the warm climate factor to be a minor consideration.

This is why Scotland voted to remain part of the UK, part of the greater whole,

If the Jobs are there then they will move there but you need to remember much like Australian and Canadian immigration, Scotland wants educated immigrants and not ruffians, even if they will just end up doing menial Jobs.

No thanks

Dear god he did it! OCD or what? :laughing:
Depends on whether or not I have taken my meds. Please do not diss 1916 though... :nono:
Two-thirds? Only the real pussies...
Did you just call him a stupid count? ;)

Australia & New Zealand also have tougher immigration laws & enforcement than Canada and the UK, and in Canada, Vancouver has been the prime destination for immigrants, due in part to its warmer climate and geographical location.

That being said, I think we are on the same page??? An independent Scotland would not attract many EU migrants primarily because it would not be an economic hub of Europe, but rather a small satellite state on the fringe.

I just think that its cold climate might also dissuade people from going, if there standard of living isn't going to drastically improve in comparison to other places they could go to in Europe, than why go?

I think that Scotland could attract a lot of high skilled labour from India & China like Canada does. Citizens in the EU just have to many comfy choices.

I Googled "ireland sucks" and those were all on the first page. Wasn't hard.

Why? What's so special about 1916?

Well I knew a guy a few years ago here that wanted to emigrate to Canada but gave up after he was told it would be a three year wait unless he secured a job first. He found out that for him Australia was an easier choice and just had a year wait, New Zealand though is meant to be toughest of the three.

An independent Scotland I think would survive as apart from oil it does have a pretty thriving tourist trade as it is spectacular in summer,

You also need to remember that a lot of Brits emigrate to places like Canada and Australia and for most of those the climate is a big factor, because they are not really proper immigrants like from the third world and are moving mostly out of choice..

Those were probably all written by Irishmen! :laughing:
It's our July 4. Sort of. Except it failed miserably. But it led to our independence. Which we then ... gave away to Germany :banghead:

Anyway, it's the 100th anniversary of the Easter Rising next year, so just watch it, unless you want the IRA knockin' at yer door!
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...el_Collins.jpg

You lost? I'm shocked.

Leave it to Ireland to make their holiday last one year instead of celebrating annually.

Huh? It's called a Centenary...

You said that 1916 is your July 4th. So you only celebrated the holiday in 1916?

Oh, a joke. I get it. I get jokes.
http://img.rasset.ie/0005c203-440.jpg
http://media.collegetimes.com/upload...nk-irish-1.jpg

So much for Cameron's blue collar conservatism.

Tories will always be Tories, it's obvious as soon as they are elected they will start cutting services.

Well if they don't wake up and realize that neo classical liberalism f)cks over 80% of the population, they will never be in power in the future.

Hence the popularity of Trump America and the dissident votes going to UKIP.

The Tories will always be the dominant party in the UK regardless of what they keep on doing. Brits don't like radical change and despite liking the policies of the UKIP will never take the gamble at the time of voting and switch their party.

I'd have never guessed, what with you going democratic but still keeping your dictator.

Well it will be interesting to see if this right wing populism rising in the western world is a flash in the pan. From what I understand UKIP siphoned more votes from labour than they did the Conservatives.

The tories will always have those safe upper class seats, its losing those middle and working class swing ridings that will cause them to lose elections.

I just happen to believe that neo liberal economics (free trade & outsourcing) hurts the wages of UK citizens in the long run. Just my opinion though, despite liking the Tory stance on balancing the budget.

^i thought you had mentioned something about being libertarian?

Me no, I don't subscribe to any political ideology or party, they're all bull$hit. I'm all about the politics of life expectancy.

Whatever policies raise the quality of life and life expectancy of the working class in the western world is what I vote for.


Anyways turns out the Tories planning to do some good things. A raise in the national living wage, and no income tax paid for those on the lower income bracket, though that already probably happens.

Watching question time I think Jeremy Corbyn will be a much shrewder foe for Cameron than red Ed, unfortunately their to far to the left now, and 1970's socialism brings back bad memories for Brits.

Wow the proposed Tax credits cuts by the Tories is all the rage over in the UK.

Hmmm, raising the National Living Wage isn't going to do much for those getting cut, but already making slightly more if I read this right.

Someone should have told Cameron that the UK is not all that important to the EU, unlike the U.S.; the political class not the business class, runs Europe and there is no way a rising powerhouse like Poland is going agree to the cap on migrant benefits with the amount of Poles currently working in the UK.

Of course Hollande is going to oppose it, if Cameron gets his way France will see their migrant population explode. Socialist bastard! I hate Hollande, he's driving France to their financial grave. Here's idea France, why not implement some labour reforms that allow people to work at temporary labour agencies and work their way up the ladder, instead of sitting on the dole.

The darkside of socialism, a two tier class system whereby native born French citizens have good public sector and union paying jobs, and the migrant population sits at the bottom in $hitty service sector jobs because their is no economic opportunity to get ahead with all the bureaucratic red tape that prevents small businesses from getting ahead.

If that's not a recipe for terrorism I don't know what it is.

David Cameron rebuffed on migrant benefits at EU summit - Moneycontrol.com

I knew a Muslim family that moved to the U.S., they guys Uncle now owns a KFC franchise and will have more money than I will ever see!

Why Do American Muslims Fare Better Than Their French Counterparts?

I'll tl;dr that article for you.

Also because immigrants to the US in many cases get delicious tax breaks. Why do you think so many people from India buy a gas station, run it for a few years, then when they stop getting tax breaks sign it over to their cousin and do something else? They cut costs harder than Walmart then cash out quick.

http://www.fastrackonline.net/flags/...argeUSFlag.gif

This is very true, while Canadian immigrants are quite well off, I've met a ton of Punjabi/Indian immigrants who would love to get into the United States because the opportunity to move up the ladder is far easier. (In their words)

Imagine your a doctor or engineer from Algeria whose immigrated to France and you find yourself cleaning toilets or driving cabs because you have to take a gazillion credentials before you can practice your trade.

You then decide to start your own business but you can't expand because of all the socialist red tape, so your stuck with one little smoke shop that hardly pays the bills.

I probably shouldn't have blasted Hollande as bad as I did, but France has a serious problem with economic liberalization.

Their right wing party is to left of our liberal party in Canada on economics. To the left! They make the Democrats look like Ronald Reagan!

Canada has a better life expectancy rate than France, so I mean....how big of a welfare state does France need?

I'm kind of with the train of thought that if the French want to do it they can, the only possible negative impact it could have is on the people deciding to do it. Their approach to economics has been weird for a long time. Want to keep life as nice as possible while barely scraping by. I mean, it has merit.

Again though, starting a business isn't supposed to be easy, there's no point in blaming anything on the government. It's just a dumb idea for most people to do, but there are enough dumb people where it happens a lot. There is no path to financial stability for a lot of people. That's just a near universal truth. This world isn't designed for the lower class to prosper, it's designed for people to prosper off them.

wow nameless you must be onto something with your conceptualization that most people don't benfit, you've even managed to grasp the concept that in general the lower class doesn't prosper. You make the argument that other people somehow benefit from the lower class? what?

Honestly being a human is more or less what your born into at this point. You got a computer, you can get whatever media you want but alas you might as well kick it like ya boi and start appreciating the general knowledge of incapability

anybody dumb enough to dismiss other people as dumb self serviceability is a ****ing retard

Well I mean, the people who do most of the work for **** don't exactly benefit the most. Stop acting like a little bitch. What thing could possibly be done that would lead to most small businesses working? Who even wants that aside from the person who wants to own their own business? People want like, Target.

(I bold to make things easier to follow, not because I'm a pompous f)ck, I'm not here to argue, just to make my points)

Hmmm that is a very Marxist way of looking at things, but of course there is some truth in it, cutting labour costs is one sure way to ensure that a business has more profit to pass onto its investors.

However the world is based on...

1) Competing nation states first...

2) The power of multinational corporations second...

A good example would be United States corporations not being able to do business in China without conceding some of their intellectual property and patens to the Chinese government and its corporate competitors.

In exchange American corporations are allowed access to what is shaping up to be the futures biggest consumer market.

Another example would be that American workers (who are richer) are losing their jobs to Chinese workers, many who eventually work there way into China's growing middle class.

In regards to immigration, in Canada you may be surprised to know that a large proportion of Canadians of Asian heritage have more money or on par Canadians of European or Native decent.

This is because Canada's immigration comes largely from two rising superpowers China and India.

People from India come here and start successful small business that earn them entry into the middle class.

People from China already have a $hitload of money, they buy up all the property, start big business and hire largely Chinese workers who benefit and work their way up the ladder.

However if your an immigrant from a powerless nation like Haiti or Vietnam your economic prospects are less bright unless you take out a student loan.

So yes being poor sucks. but if your Nation State is on the ball, you'll fare much better.

It is interesting that Cameron has been reelected and yet people still hate him. Some people never use their brain, do they?

Small businesses generally do not have investors outside of like, people they know. It's mostly people who just want to be their own boss and don't think things through and fail. And small business loans. I think we have missed something though, I am not saying that is how things SHOULD be, I'm just saying it's how they are in most countries. The vast majority of the population does the vast majority of the work and a huge chunk of them are broke as hell. You can bust your ass your entire life, do nothing wrong, and in the US you are still one medical emergency away from being not only totally broke, but in debt.

I don't agree with what you say about how people from different countries do things differently once they make it to Canada though. A lot of it is actually families who are not that well off in China who manage to pay for one child to go to a good college, then that kid graduates, gets a job, and pays for the next sibling etc. most of them are not rich lol.

Bam! Cameron just torpedoed UKIP & Labour in one go!

UKIP -because it looks like Cameron will get his cap on welfare/EI benefits for migrants for the most part (3 years instead of 4) taking away some major ammunition from UKIP

Labour - because preventing people from going on benefits and forcing them to find work makes people less inclined to vote Labour once they get citizenship..

Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande 'offer David Cameron three year EU migrant benefits ban' | UK Politics | News | The Independent

I have wondered about this. The UK does contribute a large % of GDP to the EU, and the word is that German business like the UK, because it acts as a capitalist counterweight to the socialist red tape of continental Europe.

So we shall see...

I find this ongoing revolt within the labour party quite disgraceful.

Labour crisis as dozens of MPs 'threaten to quit' unless Corbyn quits | Politics | News | Daily Express

The Blairites have to come to terms that they lost and should either get behind there leader or f)ck off!

I do question the relevance of the Labour Party in the 21st century though, as the working class its supposed to represent, no longer votes for them on mass, being flanked by UKIP in England, and wiped out by the SNP in Scotland.

It looks doubtful that they will win back much of that support:

Only 4,000 Scots join Labour party in the wake of Jeremy Corbyn

Nigel Farage: Ukip will wipe out Labour in the north – just as the SNP did in Scotland - Telegraph

The Blairites might want to look at joining the party where they belong; the liberal democrats, it is about high time the whigs had a revival.

In other words, let labour be labour, not some platform to launch the careers of middle class professionals!!!

MPs to vote on national anthem for England - BBC News

Excellent news and long overdue. GSTQ is an awful choice in my opinion. Jerusalem is an amazing song, hopefully they pick that.

I think if this happens then Northern Ireland will change theirs as well. I can't see them sticking with GSTQ if we change our anthem.

Anyone got any better suggestions than Jerusalem? Rose of England is pretty nice. Maybe even Vindaloo :cool:

A fitting anthem for this green and pleasant land:

I hope that they choose this version.