Disagree. But I'm just the old ****.

Sorry for swearing and spoiling your ears Ki.

Plus, we don't react as much to tragedies that are partly caused by our own countries. When NATO bombed Libya, people barely lifted an eye here in Norway. The politicians talked about it as if it was a humanitarian intervention - except for one leftist party that has later made some effort to apologize for voting for the bombing in parliament. The media didn't say much either. People don't want to read stuff that makes them feel guilty.

Well I do think the liberal interventionism which has been a hallmark of the Democrat Party going back to Woodrow Wilson, and has infected the Republican Party under the guise of neo conservatism (basically Wilsonianism) is part of the problem.

The idea that we can replace strong men with legislative assemblies in countries that have absolutely no tradition of the rule of law or democracy is utopian. Libya is worse off now than it is under Gaddafi.

This whole nonsense pushed by the media of an Arab Spring was nothing more than rulers losing their grip because they had become extremely unpopular once the effects of 2009 crash and slowdown hit the Arab world.

Some rulers lost power, (Gaddafi) and some re-established their power, (Egypt) and they did not do it by establishing habeas corpus, and the rule of law.

-Did anyone think that a country with sectarian violence like Iraq would have become a full fledge democracy?

-That the majority of the Shia population would embrace Americanism over their brothers in Iran?

-That the Sunni population would stand by and except having their power and resources stripped away after dominating the region for years under Saddam?

-That Libya wouldn't break down into tribal warring factions, but instead would come together to make a functioning western democracy?

-By continuing to support the rebels in the South of Syria, we will one day bring about a great democratic nation filled with Wallmart's and Mcdonalds?

- That the Muslim Brotherhood wouldn't attempt a power grab in Egypt and that it would have turned into a great western democracy

I think it's safe to say that American & western foreign policy of the 21st century has been abject failure.

We need to get over the western guilt of imperialism that liberals & Marxists like to shame people into feeling, and get back to the Realpolitik of Henri Kissinger, and support stability. "He may be an as$hole! but he's our as$hole!"

Yes I'm a conservative on foreign policy because presently it doesn't exist!

anyways that's my rant!

^^^

**** no and **** yes to all applicable questions as necessary to show my agreement with all of that.

As much as these jokes may disgust me at times...

I think it's better to laugh than to cry.

Plus, it's not like these people are going to come on here and read these things. **** no, they don't got time for that! Some poor French guy just gets his brother blown up and he's like "Oh no, I have to find out what Music Banter has to say about this!".


But on the other side of the spectrum, the reason why Chula is bothered by it is because human suffering genuinely bothers him. It's something that goes along with having your humanity and morals.

Edit: So are the French going to defend themselves or is America going to sink it's self into debt doing it for them?

tbh i think subconciously we rank 1st world deaths over 3rd world deaths since life in the 3rd world is already **** so i guess it seems like less of a loss

for example we cared a lot about japan's tsunami even through they're not our people. probably wouldn't have cared if it was cambodia or something.

You truly have a warped sense of........... well........... pretty much everything.

I'll forever be on the fence about whether I like you or not.

Kinda cool.

i think what i said is pretty true tbh... it's just an uncomfortable truth. i didn't say it was a good thing pal

edit - if you think about it, it's not all that different from the disparity between the feelings you get for an elderly person who passes away vs a child who passes away. one of them was in much better shape and had a much brighter future. i think the only reason you have to rebel against this notion is cause you are rich and thus thinking about how poor people's lives matter less to society in practice makes you uncomfortable.

You get used to it in the Middle East, a car bomb going off there or someone blowing themselves up in the street is not really unusual so it's not really 'news', whereas over here it is. Though some of the stuff ISIS have did over there has been big news here anyway, like drowning people in cages and running people over in tanks, throwing gay people off rooves - because they posted videos it seems more real.

And it's understandable that Europeans would be concerned with this, shit's on our doorstep now.

that's just a polite rewording of what i was saying tbh... "their life is ****" =correlation= "a car bomb going off is not so unusual"

Not all of it was.

I'm rich? You're so wrong bucko. Get back to me when you get your arrogant **** together.

@ monkeytennis

i'm just latching onto your post to reiterate my initial point tbh

and as for the isis videos... they are more potent cause of their up close brutality. i'm not denying basic empathy... of course we are going to feel bad for third world people if we're forced to watch them suffer on video

but generally it happens off camera so that's not such an issue

EDIT -

:laughing: what a teaser. you have something to say or don't you? i assumed you were relatively well off cause that's the impression you've given, but i was using the term rich there to describe you relative to some starving 3rd worlder. so i think it still fits, regardless of how mediocre your budget actually is.

Fair enough, agree.

So, you are rich too then, since you get to eat everyday?

yea... relatively speak i am

So, what was your point?

That you got mad at me for pointing out something that was blatantly true cause you don't like thinking about yourself as a member of a society that would be so crass

Clueless dude. Take your jade somewhere else.

yea, apparently so

Rich person. No clue.

you're repeating yourself, chula

did you take your pill today?

What is your point? Assuming you are a part of the same society class as me...

I think I heard a report that 2 weeks ago French Fighters Jets bombed some isis targets in war torn Syria so yeah THIS is War and I don't think ISIS cares about it being civilian targets cus im pretty sure at time America Does not care if they bomb some civilian Targets " See the war in Libya and Syria" most recent

still tho im not quite sure were ISIS just popped out of no where and I wonder if at any givin time the west funded Isis in the start but backed off

but I know why the west is meddling in that region its all geo political

but its kinda sad that these two giant Superpowers Russia and Allied Nations are just ****in up the middle east and the arabs are so dumb there are fighting among themselves shouldn't the UNite and kick Russia and America out of there land o well this has been going on since the biblical days

The problem isn't that there is western imperialism in the region, the problem is that historically there hasn't been enough, it's the remnants of the governing institutions of the Ottoman Empire that run the place, not western institutions that have an established rule of law and habeas corpus.

If there was western imperialism in the region than the Iraqi oil fields wouldn't be being controlled by the interests of Iran & China, its the one western imperialist thing we should be doing. Did all those American soldiers get killed and maimed for nothing?

All that being said, I don't support intervention. We should be propping up strong men in the region like the secular Egyptian military, who can stabilize their country, and then....and only maybe....they might develop into western nations in about a century from now.

PS, don't be surprised if all the terrorists are home grown French citizens. Mass immigration under the policy of multiculturalism has resulted in creating segregated arab communities in France that have no connection to French culture or values.

A racially pluralistic society is a good thing, but if your going to let a quarter of a million people into your country each year you have to ASSIMULATE! ASSIMULATE! ASSIMULATE!

PS; Angela Merkel's career is finished. Sorry another rant!

At the time of the Western intervention in Libya, the African Union was desperately trying to find a peaceful solution, Gaddafi had accepted to hold democratic elections under international observation, and the General Secretary of the UN demanded an immediate ceasefire. The idea that the intervention was about saving civilian lives and introducing democracy, is dubious.

what motives would you suggest?

Economic ones, perhaps.

What economic benefit has the US reaped from intervention in Libya? Looks more like a huge sum of money that was basically thrown away to me.

I don't know. It was just a suggestion.

Attention.

As you can see, I deleted a lot of completely unnecessary and quite frankly offensive posts that were made at the beginning of this thread and any post referring to them.

This thread is now considered and is being monitored as a serious discussion thread.

Does that mean you can't voice your opinion even if it may not be a well taken one? No. You can voice that all you want. As you can see, I didn't delete the actual discussions towards the end of this thread because that is what this sub is for.

You know what this sub ISN'T for? F*cking classless and heartless jokes about 129 people who just lost their f*cking lives at a concert and various other places around France. Yes, people die every day. I understand that. If you don't want to join the rest of the world in mourning this tragedy, or any other tragedy for that matter, don't, you don't have to...

but if I see jokes in this thread related to the attacks, discipline will happen. Whether you agree with it or not, I'm now drawing a line. Don't cross it. I'm aware of the attacks in Lebanon as well. Adel Termos is a goddamn hero. So I don't want to hear any BS about "You're just jumping on the Paris attack mourning" bandwagon. Jokes about innocent people losing their lives whether they happened today or ten years ago suck, and if they are in a certain context, will be f*cking deleted. It happened two days ago assh*les. Ridiculous.

PM your sh*tty attitudes about human f*cking beings with each other. Don't do it on here.

Understood?

Thanks.

Exactly, Gaddafi was on tenuous ground at this point. The west saw an opportunity to remove an anti western dictator and did, but they did it for ideology not imperialism.

If you want to say it was an imperialistic oil grab than you would have to prove that the removal of Gaddafi significantly benefited Europe, but it has not, oil production and exports to Europe have been cut in half do to the instability of the country now.

Likewise, the United States doesn't control the oil reserves in Iraq right now, its geopolitical rivals (China & Iran) have moved in and taken things over with the Iraqi government.

The problem with the west isn't that there is too much imperialism, it is that there is not enough. NATO removes the strong men under the belief they can establish a democratic system, but it doesn't have the guts to occupy that nation for long periods of time to ensure its stability, largely because they know their general public can't stomach body bags coming home in the name of nation building.

The West is in decline, it no longer has a surplus population to put troops on the ground like it did during the heyday of the British Empire, which is why we have to dump this "Wilsonian" virus of trying to make the world safe for democracy, by establishing them everywhere, because its turned the Middle East into a quagmire.

There is nothing stronger in the world than a current of political ideology, not even the most powerful multinational corporations on the planet can contend with them, they will simply get swept away.

ATTENTION: NOW THAT ALL THE JOKING HAS LONG SINCE STOPPED, LET US PAUSE To BE OFFENDED

You really think there wouldn't have been more jokes?

EDIT: Also, don't really care. This is going to be an ongoing thread and I'm drawing a line from here on out. I'm addressing the issue. Deal with it.

You need to find another forum.

you ever think about tact? if you wanted to kill those jokes the best thing you could've done is deleted them and said not a word about it. maybe privately warned the members involved via pm.

but yea... if you really thought more jokes were coming then you don't understand comedy very well, my friend. batlord and ki tried some jokes and they flopped bad. so they promptly stopped making jokes. i doubt they were going to come back and try the same failed bit again.

and drawing the line... while i respect your authority to do so... i am going to voice my opinion that it's bull****. people joke about all sorts of **** where the actual event that is at the root of the joke wasn't pleasant in reality. they joke about ww2, the holocaust, slavery, jesus hanging on a cross, 9-11. you can say "those types of jokes are never funny" but the problem is you can't control that. somebody might come along and make a funny one. then some will say oh you can joke about bad **** but there's the vague waiting period... "too soon, man, it's too fresh." please. you didn't experience anything. unless you knew someone who died, you really have no legit leg to stand on acting so sanctimonious. you're just another person that watched it on the news. you haven't suffered a trauma, my friend. you aren't being triggered. this is all a bunch of bull**** to me. just people posturing with their serious face on as if it makes the slightest bit of difference with regard to the amount of suffering that the tragedy has caused and will continue to cause.

yea you might be right. i guess it's true what they say about broken clocks.

Here's the point you seem to forget.

It's not. F*cking. Allowed. On. This. Website.

If you don't like it, f*ck off.

i'm not saying break the rules, i'm questioning the logic behind them

btw. in that. stunted. sentence. "it" is an ever growing category isn't it

Move on JWB. Your jokes here are all worn out. The edginess was fun for a while but the underlying **** blew it all out.

Especially for you.

would you pay me to stop posting chula?