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Lucem Ferre 12-10-2016 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1781616)
yes you can get SNAP usually considered to be separate from cash assistance welfare

I lump it all together, it's all coming out of tax payer money and that was the point.

elphenor 12-10-2016 09:58 PM

That's fine and not wrong

SNAP is just way cheaper

Lucem Ferre 12-10-2016 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1781622)
That's fine and not wrong

SNAP is just way cheaper

Then I don't know if I personally know anybody that actually receives welfare checks, except perhaps the welfare queen who technically can't be a welfare queen if she isn't getting welfare checks. I don't know, I assume she does though.

elphenor 12-10-2016 10:07 PM

Well yeah there's a whole lot less of them than our society seems to think

and "welfare Queen" is bad terminology nobody on welfare is living like a Queen

Lucem Ferre 12-10-2016 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1781627)
Well yeah there's a whole lot less of them than our society seems to think

and "welfare Queen" is bad terminology nobody on welfare is living like a Queen

All very true points indeed.

Though, I think it upsets people to see people doing almost as well as them with out putting in any work. So those angry people, who may only know one person who's lived their whole life abusing that system, blow things out of proportion as if it's a much bigger deal than it is. Our stigma on these programs comes more from spite we have for the ****ty people we know that tend to abuse these programs than it does with how much it actually costs us because there is no way in hell that these programs are eating up all our money.

Neapolitan 12-10-2016 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1781627)
Well yeah there's a whole lot less of them than our society seems to think

and "welfare Queen" is bad terminology nobody on welfare is living like a Queen except for the minuscule few who also have i-phones and Michael Kors pocketbooks and eat lobsters for diner, but besides that none of them are not living like queens.

ftfy

Lucem Ferre 12-10-2016 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan (Post 1781639)
ftfy

Eating lobster for a day and ramen noodles for the rest of the month with a ****ty Iphone etc. is not quite living like a queen. Welcome to lower class living.

Neapolitan 12-10-2016 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre (Post 1781642)
Eating lobster for a day and ramen noodles for the rest of the month with a ****ty Iphone etc. is not quite living like a queen. Welcome to lower class living.

My bad, no one cheats the welfare system and the rich always pay as much tax as they possibly can. Welfare queens and tax evaders are just as mythical as big foot.

Lucem Ferre 12-10-2016 11:41 PM

I didn't say that isn't cheating the system, just saying it's not that glamorous.

DwnWthVwls 12-10-2016 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre (Post 1781630)
All very true points indeed.

Though, I think it upsets people to see people doing almost as well as them with out putting in any work. So those angry people, who may only know one person who's lived their whole life abusing that system, blow things out of proportion as if it's a much bigger deal than it is. Our stigma on these programs comes more from spite we have for the ****ty people we know that tend to abuse these programs than it does with how much it actually costs us because there is no way in hell that these programs are eating up all our money.

Work as a grocery store cashier and tell me the majority of people on food stamps aren't lazy assholes abusing the system. The majority view on the system has been my experience with tons of people I don't know. I've met very few people who are actually trying and on food stamps.

Key 12-11-2016 12:30 AM

I don't make a lot and I don't use food stamps even though I'm applicable because I feel it's makes me less of a person. If I can't provide for myself, I don't feel that someone else should be forced to provide for me. If you make a livable income and are on food stamps, you're a piece of ****.

Lucem Ferre 12-11-2016 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ki (Post 1781669)
I don't make a lot and I don't use food stamps even though I'm applicable because I feel it's makes me less of a person. If I can't provide for myself, I don't feel that someone else should be forced to provide for me. If you make a livable income and are on food stamps, you're a piece of ****.

Yeah this. Unless I had kids or something.

djchameleon 12-11-2016 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan (Post 1781648)
My bad, no one cheats the welfare system and the rich always pay as much tax as they possibly can. Welfare queens and tax evaders are just as mythical as big foot.

I don't even want to respond to this again. I'm sure I already know your position just based off of how you vote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1781657)
Work as a grocery store cashier and tell me the majority of people on food stamps aren't lazy assholes abusing the system. The majority view on the system has been my experience with tons of people I don't know. I've met very few people who are actually trying and on food stamps.

Your judgement is clouded by your anecdotal evidence. I have seen the other side of the coin. Just like how people have too much pride to be on Welfare. There are people that want to get off of it and would desperately love to be working again if they could find a job. Being on welfare isn't the luxurious life at all. The way it is currently set up especially in NY. It is actually hard to get off of Welfare because of how much the system hinders you from trying to get training on the side or going back to school/taking GED courses to better yourself and actually qualify for a better job. Sure there are people that abuse/commit fraud but the percentage of people that do so are few compared to the rest of the cases that legit need help. Businesses take welfare from the government but god forbid someone falls on hard times and needs some assistance after paying into the same system their entire life. That's what it is there for. It was meant to be a transitional temporary program but it has been so corrupted that people end up getting stuck on it and being unable to find work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ki (Post 1781669)
I don't make a lot and I don't use food stamps even though I'm applicable because I feel it's makes me less of a person. If I can't provide for myself, I don't feel that someone else should be forced to provide for me. If you make a livable income and are on food stamps, you're a piece of ****.

Yeah that's the thing. People aren't making a livable income. Not everyone can run home to mommy and daddy to have them provide food for them. The majority of people that benefit the most from food stamps are children, the disabled, veterans and seniors. Obama phones are hardly iPhones. They are piece of **** flip phones. Also having lobster for one night then eating ramen noodles and going to food pantries for the rest of the month is hardly the glamorous life that the welfare queen narrative makes it out to be.

Maybe you should apply for food stamps and take the burden off of your parents having to provide food for you. You paid into the system when you were working why not take advantage of it. It's okay. I know you won't do it because you are too prideful and think that people are a piece of **** for surviving.

Mindfulness 12-11-2016 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon (Post 1781691)
I don't even want to respond to this again. I'm sure I already know your position just based off of how you vote.



Your judgement is clouded by your anecdotal evidence. I have seen the other side of the coin. Just like how people have too much pride to be on Welfare. There are people that want to get off of it and would desperately love to be working again if they could find a job. Being on welfare isn't the luxurious life at all. The way it is currently set up especially in NY. It is actually hard to get off of Welfare because of how much the system hinders you from trying to get training on the side or going back to school/taking GED courses to better yourself and actually qualify for a better job. Sure there are people that abuse/commit fraud but the percentage of people that do so are few compared to the rest of the cases that legit need help. Businesses take welfare from the government but god forbid someone falls on hard times and needs some assistance after paying into the same system their entire life. That's what it is there for. It was meant to be a transitional temporary program but it has been so corrupted that people end up getting stuck on it and being unable to find work.



Yeah that's the thing. People aren't making a livable income. Not everyone can run home to mommy and daddy to have them provide food for them. The majority of people that benefit the most from food stamps are children, the disabled, veterans and seniors. Obama phones are hardly iPhones. They are piece of **** flip phones. Also having lobster for one night then eating ramen noodles and going to food pantries for the rest of the month is hardly the glamorous life that the welfare queen narrative makes it out to be.

Maybe you should apply for food stamps and take the burden off of your parents having to provide food for you. You paid into the system when you were working why not take advantage of it. It's okay. I know you won't do it because you are too prideful and think that people are a piece of **** for surviving.

http://i.imgur.com/dhMeAzK.gif

Zhanteimi 12-11-2016 05:43 AM

Americans > Foreigners

Lisnaholic 12-11-2016 07:30 AM

Good thread, DJ. Good OP and good defense of the unemployed and the working poor. :clap:

Ol’ Qwerty Bastard 12-11-2016 08:16 AM

DJ, you keep talking about "percentages" yet you haven't provided any actual evidence of this to be the case. You're info is no more valid than DWV's unless you're able to prove that it's true.

I think there are a lot of people on either side, abusing the system and needing the system. But I do not believe throwing money at a person (regardless of the sum) helps to fix a problem. Looking anecdotally at the issue, much like DWV, most people I've seen in these situations are there because more than anything else they're lazy. Tax dollars shouldn't have to pay them to sit around.

elphenor 12-11-2016 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ki (Post 1781669)
I don't make a lot and I don't use food stamps even though I'm applicable because I feel it's makes me less of a person. If I can't provide for myself, I don't feel that someone else should be forced to provide for me. If you make a livable income and are on food stamps, you're a piece of ****.

It doesn't make you less of a person to accept help from people Jesus Christ our society teaches ****ty values

elphenor 12-11-2016 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwertyy (Post 1781727)

Looking anecdotally at the issue

This is your problem, your anecdotal evidence is subject to confirmation bias

Start using basic scientific method

The problem of poverty is not explained away by "people are lazy"

Key 12-11-2016 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1781783)
It doesn't make you less of a person to accept help from people Jesus Christ our society teaches ****ty values

Nah. I just don't see why I should be on food stamps when I have the ability to make more when people on food stamps don't have the ability to make more. It makes me selfish if I have access to a livable income (but don't bother) to put myself into the same league as those that are disabled or unable to work due to health reasons.

Ol’ Qwerty Bastard 12-11-2016 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1781787)
This is your problem, your anecdotal evidence is subject to confirmation bias

Start using basic scientific method

The problem of poverty is not explained away by "people are lazy"

dude you really need to stop putting words in my mouth. I directly said IN MY EXPERIENCE, I never said it was a general rule. I know there's more to poverty to laziness, but that doesn't mean there isn't lazy people that are poor for that very reason.

DwnWthVwls 12-11-2016 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1781787)
This is your problem, your anecdotal evidence is subject to confirmation bias

Start using basic scientific method

The problem of poverty is not explained away by "people are lazy"

You're right, it's explained by people making bad decisions(most of the time). My problem isn't with the system, it's how they determine and monitor eligibility.

The Batlord 12-11-2016 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwertyy (Post 1781793)
dude you really need to stop putting words in my mouth. I directly said IN MY EXPERIENCE, I never said it was a general rule. I know there's more to poverty to laziness, but that doesn't mean there isn't lazy people that are poor for that very reason.

Granted, this is also my own experience, but po' people ain't lazy. They do dumb ****, rationalize why there's no point in trying to better themselves, and spend much of their money on weed and ****, but they work their asses off way more than Republicans would have you believe. So many of my coworkers have two jobs and fight for hours, and yet they don't put the same effort into trying to pick up a trade or take community classes, largely because the system has convinced them that this is simply their lot in life. It's not laziness, just acceptance.

elphenor 12-11-2016 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1781796)
You're right, it's explained by people making bad decisions(most of the time). My problem isn't with the system, it's how they determine and monitor eligibility.

without proper education how can you expect people to make the right decisions people are a product of their environment

The US has a pretty rigid class system despite the popular narrative

DwnWthVwls 12-11-2016 12:44 PM

What exactly is a proper education to you? You don't need to graduate high school to know how to have safe sex or use that $20 for food instead of drugs.

elphenor 12-11-2016 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwertyy (Post 1781793)
dude you really need to stop putting words in my mouth. I directly said IN MY EXPERIENCE, I never said it was a general rule. I know there's more to poverty to laziness, but that doesn't mean there isn't lazy people that are poor for that very reason.

yes I understand what you said and I'm telling you not to make assumptions based on your personal experience

That is for your own good really

elphenor 12-11-2016 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1781805)
What exactly is a proper education to you? You don't need to graduate high school to know how to have safe sex or use that $20 for food instead of drugs.

you do need parents that are not drug addicts themselves

DwnWthVwls 12-11-2016 12:48 PM

Are you trying to argue that everyone on welfare has drug addict parents?

elphenor 12-11-2016 12:50 PM

I'm arguing there are lots of things outside of ones own control

"good decisions" are not made in a vacuum

Ol’ Qwerty Bastard 12-11-2016 12:54 PM

I think the system should be there to benefit single parents and that's about it.

The Batlord 12-11-2016 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1781805)
What exactly is a proper education to you? You don't need to graduate high school to know how to have safe sex or use that $20 for food instead of drugs.

I'd say this one-size fits all, college or bust style of education is ****. The current American curriculum seems almost entirely based on getting kids into college (which it still doesn't do well) while ignoring any child who will enter the workforce directly after high school. I know some school systems have programs to help kids get into apprenticeships for trades or whatnot, but invariably I also hear that those programs are underfunded, even though they should get just as much attention as any course meant to prepare students for college.

Key 12-11-2016 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwertyy (Post 1781814)
I think the system should be there to benefit single parents and that's about it.

Seems like qwert and I are on the same page with this.

elphenor 12-11-2016 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ki (Post 1781792)
Nah. I just don't see why I should be on food stamps when I have the ability to make more when people on food stamps don't have the ability to make more. It makes me selfish if I have access to a livable income (but don't bother) to put myself into the same league as those that are disabled or unable to work due to health reasons.

If you're getting paid less than 15/hrs you're getting mugged by society anyway

elphenor 12-11-2016 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1781820)
I'd say this one-size fits all, college or bust style of education is ****. The current American curriculum seems almost entirely based on getting kids into college (which it still doesn't do well) while ignoring any child who will enter the workforce directly after high school. I know some school systems have programs to help kids get into apprenticeships for trades or whatnot, but invariably I also hear that those programs are underfunded, even though they should get just as much attention as any course meant to prepare students for college.

Also the quality of education you receive varies wildly depending on which side of town you live

Everyone knew which school was the "bad school" when I was growing up
Going there meant the difference between going to college and going to prison

djchameleon 12-11-2016 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwertyy (Post 1781727)
DJ, you keep talking about "percentages" yet you haven't provided any actual evidence of this to be the case. .


All you have to do is ask me to back it up with stats and I will go provide the stats for you.

I'm not going to do that extra work ahead of time. Pfft.
Quote:

Improper welfare payments, including fraud, are estimated to be 10.1% of all federal welfare payments made and totaled $71.5 billion in fiscal year 2015.
http://federalsafetynet.com/welfare-fraud.html
Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwertyy (Post 1781727)
I think there are a lot of people on either side, abusing the system and needing the system. But I do not believe throwing money at a person (regardless of the sum) helps to fix a problem. Looking anecdotally at the issue, much like DWV, most people I've seen in these situations are there because more than anything else they're lazy. Tax dollars shouldn't have to pay them to sit around.

The narrative and based off of people's personal experience. Most people think that everyone is conning and abusing the system but it's just not true. SNAP and Welfare is meant to be a safety net program for when people fall on hard times. When they get fired from their job and unemployment benefits isn't cutting it or whatever other situation that leads to them not being able to survive. I think everyone that can qualify for it should have access to it. It is temporary even though it doesn't seem like it based off how long people have been on it.

Key 12-11-2016 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1781870)
If you're getting paid less than 15/hrs you're getting mugged by society anyway

Sure. But I still have the ability and freedom to change that whereas those with disabilities and a fixed income do not. Therefore they should be allowed to enjoy food stamps. If I can get out a find a well paying job, I shouldn't feel the need to get help from the government when I don't need it.

elphenor 12-11-2016 03:38 PM

If you have a Burger King job or whatever even if it's part time you ought to be justly compensated for that job

The government is too weak to force massive multi billion dollar corporations to let their workers share in the profits

So at least get an EBT card you've earned it

Key 12-11-2016 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1781875)
If you have a Burger King job or whatever even if it's part time you ought to be justly compensated for that job

The government is too weak to force massive multi billion dollar corporations to let their workers share in the profits

So at least get an EBT card you've earned it

Of course. I'm not disagreeing with that at all. But what I'm trying to get across is the fact that if you are on food stamps and make a livable wage, you're abusing the system because you feel "more money is better than less". It's the same if someone with a multi million dollar home receives welfare checks. That's how I see it anyway.

elphenor 12-11-2016 03:42 PM

I mean you'd have to define "livable wage"

I've made it on a minimum wage job but it was 3-4 roommates in a studio and ****t like that

Any wage is technically liveable when you have no choice

Key 12-11-2016 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1781879)
I mean you'd have to define "livable wage"

I've made it on a minimum wage job but it was 3-4 roommates in a studio and ****ty like that

In this day and age, I suppose the only livable wage you could find is going to school and getting a degree. I'm not disputing that it's near impossible to find livable wage jobs. Personally it just doesn't seem like food stamps should be abused the way they are. They're far too accessible for people that don't need them. Same goes for unemployment.

My younger brother and his girlfriend use them and they go to school and work full time jobs. They live in a house together with 2 roommates so any expenses go toward EBT. That to me just doesn't feel right, but again, it's just a personal thing.


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