OccultHawk

This historian https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Bulliet

figures there were other civilizations that predate the Fertile Crescent but we have yet to find evidence of their existence and may not

Just a side note

OccultHawk

Let's ask the Unabomber.

Janszoon

Yeah, could be. Who knows?

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riseagainstrocks

It's almost like a full century of European colonial powers invading, supporting unpopular regimes, geographically reapportioning, siphoning resources, and then leaving due to military and political exhaustion after World War II had a negative effect on the internal development of places with few natural resource advantages and a several thousand year history of tribal culture.

Seriously, what are you hoping to get from your question? For Janszoon, elphenor, Rjinn, and myself to say "you got us, they're only good at blowing themselves up and stoning women to death - those damn Muslims"?

I'm not sure how many different ways there are to say 'fundamentalism is a bad thing, people who kill for their god are unstable, and when it appears to be a culturally approved act there is usually a larger explanation, which in the case of the Middle East and Islam, the genesis of today's unrest is the political history of a region not allowed to develop free of outside influence.'

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OccultHawk

Maybe if you try real hard you can think of just one...

riseagainstrocks

You're making my point for me. Colonialism in the Middle East existed for pretty much that one reason (plus the Strait of Hormuz,Suez Canal, and a few other routes linking Asia and the West I'm forgetting). It was either haggle with/fight Russia or go elsewhere. So Britain, France, and to a lesser extent the Low Countries, got all sorts of mixed up in the Middle East. We're seeing some of the last repercussions of that with the Arab Spring and its subsequent reversals.

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OccultHawk

Maybe if they didn't waste their lives memorizing their silly green book they might have noticed before they needed suicide vests instead of new kicks.

One love. Negative solidarity is better than fracture!

Since they refuse to enjoy a better life I guess Britain has no choice but to join them in a ****tier one.

Trollheart

As Jansz said, civilisation is where man became civilised, not where he originated. Islam had writing and maths as far as I remember reading way before the West did. Their science was streets ahead of ours. Iraq has in fact been referred to many times as literally that: "the cradle of civilsation".
Science, tech, maths, literature, engineering, medicine ... you know. Advancements.
Remember that all I'm doing here is pointing out why Ant's meme does in fact make sense. Whether you agree with it or not, the point is that it does make a good case for Islam having deliberately held back advances. After all, they refuse to allow women to be educated, don't they? So they retard fifty percent of their population/adherents. How many women in the West can you name who made massively important discoveries and "advanced society"? I'm not saying the West didn't play its part in keeping Islam down, but they're basically advocating remaining in the Dark Ages with their religious beliefs, no?

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Anteater

The problem with saying that the Fertile Crescent is where man became civilized is that it discounts / ignores mounting evidence that civilizations from the Indus River Valley predate Mesopotamia by at least a thousand years. Maybe more. Look up Mehrgarh sometime when you get a chance.

Exactly.

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Rjinn

I'll respond to this soon, as I haven't slept and it'll probably be a lengthy reply.

That's been changing for the last 100 or so years.

I can only give you a personal example at the moment. I am an agnostic who comes from a predominant muslim family that mostly follow strict religious guidelines.

My mother is a software engineer, her cousin is a biotech engineer with a masters degree in physics and Randa Jarrar is a successful writer in America who were all educated in the Middle East. So please tell me that 50% of their population are retarded.

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