Political Discussions for "Adults"

Pet_Sounds · 07-14-2017, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

the alternative has always been to have the workers run the factories

Is that idealistic? Not any more or less than transitioning from monarchy to representative democracy the principles are the same I'd argue

Sounds nice on paper, but I think the result would be much like the ending of Animal Farm:

Quote:

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

**Frownland** · 07-14-2017, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

I mean I've heard that a lot, but I've never come across anyone who explained how it would function in reality, and I'm not reading one of your boring poli sci books, but I'll watch a YT video about it if you're too lazy to explain.

I know how you're all about boring research papers

http://www.iiste.org/Journals/index....le/17351/17948

No I didn't read it.

Hope that helps.

DwnWthVwls · 07-14-2017, 02:09 PM

^Much better than a book, lets avoid the fluff. I'll check it out.

Chula Vista · 07-14-2017, 02:30 PM

*never mind*

Paul Smeenus · 07-14-2017, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

*never mind*

Okay.

Pet_Sounds · 07-14-2017, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

Fun Fact: Orwell was a socialist himself the book Is a cautionary tale but not a "see socialism could never work" type of deal

Yeah, I know. Nobody stumps me on Orwell trivia.

My thought is that in such a hypothetical situation, strict rules would have to be in place to prevent certain workers from wresting control from others. But then power ends up in the hands of whoever enforces the rules.

Bottom line is that however idyllic such a system sounds, I don't think people can pull it off. Think of a mathematician or physicist who comes up with a "perfect machine" on paper. An engineer who tries to implement the machine will find out pretty quickly that it needs work.

Of course, I may be way out of my depth, but these things are fun to ponder. In keeping with the scientific analogy, here's a quote from Richard Feynman. He explains my objections to communism better than I can.

Quote:

I would like to remark, in passing, since the word “atheism” is so closely connected with “communism,” that the communist views are the antithesis of the scientific, in the sense that in communism the answers are given to all the questions—political questions as well as moral ones—without discussion and without doubt.

The scientific viewpoint is the exact opposite of this; that is, all questions must be doubted and discussed; we must argue everything out—observe things, check them, and so change them. The democratic government is much closer to this idea, because there is discussion and a chance of modification.

OccultHawk · 07-14-2017, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I agree insofar as I'm not a Utopian

however I do believe it is useful to have one in mind and to work incrementally to get as close as possible

I agree. We need to set the sails with a sense of purpose.

Trollheart · 07-14-2017, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riseagainstrocks

"Taxation without Representation" was the rallying cry of the Founding Fathers. 'Taxation is Theft' is the childish whine of the Sovereign Citizen and the anarchist.

Of course you know this, but it was "No taxation without representation", as the other would make an odd rallying call. Does remind me of an episode of the superlative political satire The New Statesman, in which Tory wideboy politician Alan B'Stard (yes, that was his name!) intends to disenfranchise the poor by taking away their vote, if their income falls beneath a certain figure. "The rallying cry," he bellows, "of the American Revolution was No Taxation without Representation! I offer a new clarion call: No Representation without Taxation!"
What a guy!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofle

Do places of work grow on trees?

Branch offices do...

**Frownland** · 07-14-2017, 06:11 PM

Is stolen valor an appropriate topic for the thread? Military is kind of similar to politics I guess. Living in SD I have a lot of military and veteran acquaintances, so I see a lot of outrage over people who haven't served wearing military uniforms and badges. What are your thoughts on it?

Personally I see it similar to people wearing a safety vest to get into places for free. They found a social loophole, more power to them.

DwnWthVwls · 07-14-2017, 06:30 PM

I dont see a reason for the elderly and military vets to get discounts, but since it is part of our society id say its pretty ****ty of people to do so.

07-14-2017, 02:30 PM	#114 (permalink)
Chula Vista Toasted Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SoCal by way of Boston Posts: 11,332	never mind __________________ “The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

07-14-2017, 06:11 PM	#119 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Is stolen valor an appropriate topic for the thread? Military is kind of similar to politics I guess. Living in SD I have a lot of military and veteran acquaintances, so I see a lot of outrage over people who haven't served wearing military uniforms and badges. What are your thoughts on it? Personally I see it similar to people wearing a safety vest to get into places for free. They found a social loophole, more power to them. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x