If women advocated for a candidate as a symbol alone, yes. I would.

What I do get about the Bernie crowd is that can't see a win when they get one. Sanders lost the nomination and won the party. Not dissimilar to Barry Goldwater in 1964. Progressive candidates have won in districts routinely since 2018 and he's primed to pick up a lot more in 2020.

But again, people undervalue the house. If the Progressives get on committees, cut deals, and work to get changes to legislation, the country lurches forward in a way we haven't seen since FDR.

In all seriousness, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. You vote for your messiah, and I'll vote for a politician.

Could happen, I'm just skeptical at the brazen confidence many futurists have. The idea that we will be careful for instance seems to have no bearing on how technology is currently emerging.

Like I said though I'm fine with us being replaced but needless to say I'm also fine with humans becoming Gods or living in an AI based utopia.

Kinda confused... By what mechanism is it that you propose Sanders has changed the party?

And I might very well vote Biden just out of fear of Trump. That's why most people are voting for him. And you somehow see that as a positive.

I’ve read a lot of sci-fi. There’s a part of me that wants our descendants to explore the universe and evolve into something better.

You haven't seen a considerable shift from Clinton to Biden? If you didn't have the colors or words behind them, the 2016 DNC could have been the 2004 RNC. Clinton had General shouting "we will kill you" to ISIS on stage.

Now Biden is writing a joint pact with Sanders.

This is basically just a symbolic pinkie swear, haven't we had enough symbolism?

jwb hasn't

^That's exactly where I was going with that question. He somehow 'won the party' without having real power but being president would've been worthless? That's the confusion.

If you don't see that, I don't know if I can explain it to you. Without Bernie you don't have the Squad, you have no Green New Deal, and you don't have a resurgence of rust belt democrats who probably feel like you do about the Democratic Party.

The only thing Sanders hasn't been influential on is healthcare (which I have mixed feelings on) and when the impeachment happened and for what (which I'm glad his wing lost).

You're misunderstanding me. I do see the influence. That was exactly the kind of thing I was referring to as symbolism which you dismissed as something we should get past and then went on to explain how important it was.

That's why my question was "by what mechanism" do you think he's changed the party. Which was basically just campaigning, disseminating ideas and sparking discussions.

Also, he has absolutely been influential on healthcare.

I understood what you said to mean "winning the white house." Still, I wouldn't call what we're both talking about to be "symbolic." It's real legislative power.

Yes, but We, the Pragmatic Adults, surely we have had enough of this symbolism, yes? For we recognize after Obama that the presidency does not actually matter, which is why We could not have possibly elected Bernie into the office and have decided that Biden is the only Rational Choice. We, the Pragmatic Adults, who see through the Logical inconsistencies of these unfaithful Team players, surely we are not swayed by such insidious calls to action such as voting with so-called conscience and consistency, yes?

Astonished, I am, at the audacity of those who do not see what is clearly the Rational Choice like We, the Pragmatic Adults do. Do they not understand the contradictions of their philosophy despite We, the Pragmatic Adults explaining to them that they do not understand their own position? Curious, I say, and I think it is a fair basis to wholly dismiss them, for We know that they do not vote.

Totally

what legislative power did he use to exert this influence you speak of?

Obviously the entire point of symbolism is to shift the scope of the discussion enough to translate to real legislative power eventually.

oh ffs, I tell ya what. You guys are all right, and I'm wrong. I hope you sleep well.

Look at the Mature Pragmatist leaving the internet arguing to the Immature Rabble. Performative losing at its best.

You're welcome

TheBig3: *slew of bad faith questions and astonishment that clearly exposes a bias*
jwb: *posts opinion and a follow up question, also pretty bad faith*
TheBig3: *gasp* How do you sleep at night?

Hey, Big3 Smalls, what do you think of Biden being a rapist?

:laughing: I don't know how it is you expect me to sleep well knowing I'm overturning the votes of people who just want to finally see a president that doesn't even try get our hopes up

I just googled to see how credible this story looks and I just now realized this entire time I thought he was being accused of raping the actress Tara Reid

“No, I’m not kidding. In the GOP COVID-19 bill there is a major cut in unemployment benefits, no funding to feed the hungry or prevent evictions. Oh, yes! But there is $29 billion for the Pentagon. Not going to happen.”

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/st...704715264?s=20

omfg same

And I'm the one who is out of touch

I believe all women so it's irrelevant which Tara he raped, pal.

#lying #stillsleepswell

So you think Van Wilder's girlfriend is a liar and Biden is innocent because uptight leftists hate men?

Is that to me or him?

You, bud.

I guess I don't know what you mean by uptight leftists hate men.

As for Biden's innocence, insofar as he hasn't been convicted, sure. I'm not opposed to getting to the bottom of these allegations. But I'm also not going to call every discovery of inconsistencies "fake news." I guess that makes me a Franco acolyte.

So until Joe Biden is convicted of rape you are not going to pass judgement on him?

I guess I passed judgment on him by not voting for him in the primary. So, no, I guess?

But now you're excited by him? Like, omfg the lesser of two rapists is getting my short and curlies standing up like static electricity?

That sucks but if the send another $1200 that’s another precious month I don’t have to work. And the pentagon is going to get their money anyway. Even The Turtle gave a small wtf to that pentagon pork. If they’ll give me a couple more thousand they can give the pentagon 50 trillion for all I care. It’s not like this debt isn’t past the point of no return. And the oligarchs aren’t going to be any more insulated than the are now. We’re either willing to kill them or not. Until it’s dangerous for them and their families to hoard so much wealth that’s the way it’s going to stay.

I specifically said about him that this is the first time in a long time no one thinks the candidate will "save us." I'm not excited about Biden. No one is. I also said that's a positive thing and then jwb called me Ezra Klein for it.

So if people aren't excited by a rapist they're going to vote for that's exciting?

My state is super blue, and Hilary got our state in the 2016. I ain't worried. Oh, and despite being super left leaning we have a moderate republican as our Governor. Maryland is a weird ass state where both parties aren't constantly at each other's throats.

A break down:
1. The right has historically and currently tries to suppress ideas that they don't agree with. Here's a lot of examples.
2. The left put "Black Lives Matter" on an NBA court and people agree with them. This is bad because conservatives have used messaging in the past.
3. Some diversity training coaches separate groups into race for two of many group activities in some of their nonmandatory training sessions. This is the left attempting to legislate segregation.
4. Some leftist college professors write a letter requesting things like equal pay which is fine, I guess, but they go full retard by referencing critical race theory. None of these requests were granted. This is the left calling for the oppression of us well-to-do white men and submitting to emotional hysteria.
5. A professor from the same college writes a response where he rejects white privilege and calls a student group a terrorist organization, much like the heroic scholars of the past who defended evolution. This was brave and very honourable of him.
6. His coworkers were appalled at calling a peaceful student group a terrorist organization and explained what informs that stance. This is the left attempting to suppress speech that they are too sensitive to deal with under the guise of safety.
7. All of this is bad because the left is smarter than those silly right wingers.
8. Here are two misrepresented scenarios that demonstrate persecution by the left.
9. Rush Limbaugh is an *******.
10. The left has become Rush Limbaugh because some of my coworkers try to talk about politics with me.
11. These are some atrocities that the right has committed.
12. The left is the same as this.
13. Now I'm bummed out because I can't just switch teams all willy-nilly like I used to.

Anything else important to add? This article seems at odds with a lot of what you've posted in this thread, tbh.

What inherently is a "good thing" about no one being excited for Joe Biden? Do you think that running unexciting presidential candidates is a successful strategy for political parties?

I suppose I could see the argument of "if you have little to no expectations, it's hard to be dissappointed", but I don't know how you win a presidential election like that.

Well then your lack of worry is justified. I hope, for your sake, that the parties in your state continue to work amicably together despite the broad national political polarization.