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DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 04:45 AM

Political Discussions for "Adults"
 
Elph, Chula, and Anteater not welcome..

A place void of logical fallacy, lack of nuance (there most be a word for this, but damn my small vocabulary), rose-tinted glasses, hyperbolic statements, and uninformed opinions.

Begin.

:rofl:

Zhanteimi 07-13-2017 05:35 AM

.

elphenor 07-13-2017 10:32 AM

Dwn you know basically **** all about politics though and as a result your opinions are entirely feeling based at best

And then just woefully misinformed otherwise

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 10:43 AM

@Mord - That seems absurd. You can't reasonably prove ambition, and even if you could that's some pretty serious discrimination. Do you really believe that or are you just blowing off steam?


Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1855112)
Dwn you know basically **** all about politics though and as a result your opinions are entirely feeling based at best

And then just woefully misinformed otherwise



It's funny cause the bolded is correct, and yet instead of dismantling any argument I put forward you ignore my questions or provide strawman answers.. back on topic please, Mord posted an interesting opening discussion. You can see yourself out.

elphenor 07-13-2017 11:00 AM

I want to hear more about how poverty is a state of mind Mr. Carson

it will all make us feel nice and warm inside

The Batlord 07-13-2017 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mord (Post 1855083)
I am of the opinion that ambition should automatically disqualify someone from running for public office. If you're getting into politics because you want to become rich or powerful, you're automatically disqualified. If you come from a rich or political family with a long history of involvement in politics, you are banned from running for any public office.

So who steps up? Well, I hope it's someone who actually wants to provide leadership and help to his/her nation/constituency. Not just hold office to get rich or seize power.

What if no one steps up? Well, then we have a random drawing. Sorry, Farmer John! Looks like you and Plumber Ralph are running for president. Get your campaigns up and running!

Not actually supporting the idea, but for years I've been curious about a legalized political class (a new aristocracy basically) of people trained to govern from childhood through a standardized curriculum. Obviously this is not an idea to be promoted as is, but since people in general have proven that they are incompetent at voting or knowing what's in their own best interest I'm dubious that they should be given so much power as they already have.

I guess something like a revamped Roman Republic, with a patrician class governing and a lower legislative body of Tribunes representing the masses to keep them in check. I'm obviously dubious if it's even possible to implement and maintain such a body in modern times, but at the very least I'd like for alternatives or revisions to democracy to be explored. I mean it's not like we aren't already ruled by a patrician class, but at least this one would go to school for it.

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1855133)
I want to hear more about how poverty is a state of mind Mr. Carson

it will all make us feel nice and warm inside

That wasn't even the point of my argument. You really will make an excellent, terrible politician/policy writer/whatever. But hey, at least you'll be maintaining the status quo.

The Batlord 07-13-2017 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1855140)
That wasn't even the point of my argument. You really will make an excellent, terrible politician/policy writer/whatever. But hey, at least you'll be maintaining the status quo.

*psst*

You're about to ruin your own thread.

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 11:24 AM

It was a joke thread to begin with.. I'd take it seriously if they actually didn't let the 3 Musketeers post in here, but that ain't gonna happen. :D

Besides I love me some elph bants.

I'm actually waiting for some discussion to develop around my other post about statistical disparities and isms, but as usual it seems the non-sense is preferred over discussion.

The Batlord 07-13-2017 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1855143)
It was a joke thread to begin with.. I'd take it seriously if they actually didn't let the 3 Musketeers post in here, but that ain't gonna happen. :D

Besides I love me some elph bants.

I'm actually waiting for some discussion to develop around my other post about statistical disparities and isms, but as usual it seems the non-sense is preferred over discussion.

Then you might wanna repost it cause got no idear what you're talking about.

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 11:53 AM

It's literally the 2nd post.. http://www.musicbanter.com/current-e...ties-isms.html

lay off the Steel.

The Batlord 07-13-2017 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1855146)
It's literally the 2nd post.. http://www.musicbanter.com/current-e...ties-isms.html

lay off the Steel.

Of a thread nobody knows exists. And that's entirely unfair. There's a chance I might not have been drinking Steel Reserve or even alcohol.

Chula Vista 07-13-2017 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1855075)
A place void of uninformed opinions.

I probably follow politics more than anyone else on this board. I'm just older and more set in my ways (less fluid) than a lot of you. DWV, name the presidents who have held office during your lifetime.

Here's my list. Been following this stuff for a long, long time.

Kennedy
Johnson
Nixon
Ford
Carter
Reagan
Bush Sr.
Clinton
Bush Jr.
Obama
Bozo

The Batlord 07-13-2017 12:15 PM

Cause as we all know, the elderly have the nation's best interests at heart.

OccultHawk 07-13-2017 12:16 PM

I'm an old ****, too. That don't mean you know nothing.

elphenor 07-13-2017 12:22 PM

I don't feel like I belong along with Chula and Ant who I just see as beholden to party/party leader

Well Chula also has a moral compass

Chula Vista 07-13-2017 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1855156)
That don't mean you know nothing.

Exactlly.

And Bat, considering that up until the **** hit the fan Linda and I were pretty damn affluent, yet remained liberal the whole time, says a lot. It'd be in our best financial interests to vote conservative. But it's not all about us.

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1855148)
I'm just older and more set in my ways (less fluid) than a lot of you. DWV, name the presidents who have held office during your lifetime.

Reagan
Bush Sr. (not that I remember this guy or Reagan)
Clinton
Bush Jr.
Obama
Trump

Yeah, and that's why it's near impossible to have any conversation with you when you disagree with the narrative. Not only do you disagree, but you make 0 effort to understand alternative perspectives, logic, or reasoning. It is possible to disagree while still appreciating the substance behind an argument, but you'd rather bury your head in the sand and get offended.. Elph does the same non-sense which is why he was included. Neither of you like having discussions, you like telling people what you think.

elphenor 07-13-2017 12:35 PM

Unless you made over about 450k a year it was still never in your interest

OccultHawk 07-13-2017 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1855159)
Exactlly.

And Bat, considering that up until the **** hit the fan Linda and I were pretty damn affluent, yet remained liberal the whole time, says a lot. It'd be in our best financial interests to vote conservative. But it's not all about us.

Oh thank you great contributor!

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 12:40 PM

^You can go on the list too. :D

The Batlord 07-13-2017 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1855158)
I don't feel like I belong along with Chula and Ant who I just see as beholden to party/party leader

Well Chula also has a moral compass

You are not like Ant and Chula in the sense that you're a mainstream party hack. You are like them in the sense that you're mindlessly beholden to a political ideology that you have chosen. You are however likely beholden to your ideology probably because you're young and dumb and like to think you're a revolutionary of some sort or other. And you suck at debate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1855159)
Exactlly.

And Bat, considering that up until the **** hit the fan Linda and I were pretty damn affluent, yet remained liberal the whole time, says a lot. It'd be in our best financial interests to vote conservative. But it's not all about us.

What does that have to do with you using age to discredit others?

OccultHawk 07-13-2017 12:48 PM

Quote:

You are not like Ant and Chula in the sense that you're a mainstream party hack. You are like them in the sense that you're mindlessly beholden to a political ideology that you have chosen. You are however likely beholden to your ideology probably because you're young and dumb and like to think you're a revolutionary of some sort or other. And you suck at debate.
He'll be mowing the lawn, voting republican and swimming in his neighbor's pool in 10 years.

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1855169)
You are not like Ant and Chula in the sense that you're a mainstream party hack. You are like them in the sense that you're mindlessly beholden to a political ideology that you have chosen. You are however likely beholden to your ideology probably because you're young and dumb and like to think you're a revolutionary of some sort or other. And you suck at debate.



What does that have to do with you using age to discredit others?

I love it when you go hard on the paint...

elphenor 07-13-2017 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1855169)
And you suck at debate.

Very few posts are worthy of debate here it's mostly entry level nonsense worthy of only ridicule and it's not my job to teach

I have carried debates on in PMs with those I find I'm able to at least take seriously

The Batlord 07-13-2017 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1855177)
Very few posts are worthy of debate here it's mostly entry level nonsense worthy of ridicule

I have carried debates on in PMs with those I find I'm able to at least take seriously

Until you carry on one worthwhile debate in-forum then I'm going to be dubious. I understand that political debate online is tedious, but you can't expect to be taken seriously when all your posts are lazy one-liners. How do you think I'm where I am?

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 12:56 PM

My god you're entertaining.. I truly appreciate what an arrogant douche you are, even if it's obnoxious. I wanna bring you out to bars and get you wasted, then watch you argue with all the people you look down on.. You're like the Dr. House of political science except you're wrong a lot. Also, his fake degree means more than your sub3-4k polisci courses.

The Batlord 07-13-2017 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1855180)
My god you're entertaining.. I truly appreciate what an arrogant douche you are, even if it's obnoxious. I wanna bring you out to bars and get you wasted, then watch you argue with all the people you look down on.. You're like the Dr. House of political science except you're wrong a lot.

Oh thank you.

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1855182)
Oh thank you.

:finger:

*psst*

this is the new spill your guts, don't tell the mods.

elphenor 07-13-2017 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1855179)
Until you carry on one worthwhile debate in-forum then I'm going to be dubious. I understand that political debate online is tedious, but you can't expect to be taken seriously when all your posts are lazy one-liners. How do you think I'm where I am?

Zzz

Chula Vista 07-13-2017 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1855162)
but you'd rather bury your head in the sand

Just like you bury your head in the sand with people who are set in their ways. It goes both ways. You want me to opine on how Trump is a good president? On how he's handled the office? On how the current GOP wants to run the country? I've seen enough to form a firm opinion. What would you like to see me do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1855164)
Oh thank you great contributor!

You do see what you did, right?

The Batlord 07-13-2017 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1855187)
Zzz

Exactly. Sleeping. Don't sleep when debating.

elphenor 07-13-2017 01:05 PM

It's like reducing yourself to debating a creationist

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1855188)
Just like you bury your head in the sand with people who are set in their ways. It goes both ways. You want me to opine on how Trump is a good president? On how he's handled the office? On how the current GOP wants to run the country? I've seen enough to form a firm opinion. What would you like to see me do?



You do see what you did, right?

You can't bury your head in the sand against people who are set in their ways. That would mean I was not open to hearing you out, which I am, as I've shown through my attempts to have discussions with you.

What I'd like for you to do is take off your blinders and approach every new Trump subject with an ounce of objectivity. As I said in the Trump thread, you are so committed to hating Trump I find it hard to believe you would ever give him credit even if he did something that aligned with your views, and that's a problem. I'm not asking you to change any of your opinions or political party.

The Batlord 07-13-2017 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1855193)
It's like reducing yourself to debating a creationist

Then why do you even try?

DwnWthVwls 07-13-2017 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1855193)
It's like reducing yourself to debating a creationist

Not sure why this is a bad thing. It may get old, but sometimes you get through to people, and when you ask hard questions even if they won't admit it sometimes that **** sticks in the back of their mind and they began to internally question their beliefs, which imo is a win.

elphenor 07-13-2017 01:10 PM

I thought the point was that I don't

though tbh I did not lose hope on Occult in the Islam thread which I should have known better

The Batlord 07-13-2017 01:12 PM

All I'm asking is that you put in a little more effort into the posts where you actually have some skin in the debate. When people are continually trying to debate you and you consistently come with one/two-sentence posts that amount to nothing more than simply restating your opinion it makes us not want to deal with you.

elphenor 07-13-2017 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1855201)
Not sure why this is a bad thing. It may get old, but sometimes you get through to people, and when you ask hard questions even if they won't admit it sometimes that **** sticks in the back of their mind and they began to internally question their beliefs, which imo is a win.

you can only give it unwarranted validation by pretending it's worthy of debate to begin with rather than just objectively false

I remember watching new atheists try this and you could come out thinking it was a draw if you didn't know better

OccultHawk 07-13-2017 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1855202)
I thought the point was that I don't

though tbh I did not lose hope on Occult in the Islam thread which I should have known better

Oh yes because Islam is the great friend of anarchists and atheists. Go ahead and pretend those that want you dead are your allies. They don't ****ing care if you tolerate them or not. They hate you.


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