Political Discussions for "Adults"

The Batlord · 07-20-2020, 01:55 PM

Any time I find myself thinking that I just go "Nah, couldn't be." I'm definitely dubious that it would have been a motivating notion for political reform for the Northern status quo politicians.

rostasi · 07-20-2020, 02:19 PM

Trump consults Bush torture lawyer on how to skirt law and rule by decree.

Quote:

In a Fox News Sunday interview, Trump declared he would try to use that interpretation to try to force through decrees on healthcare, immigration and “various other plans” over the coming month.

~~jwb~~ · 07-20-2020, 02:20 PM

It seems to me that to assume that wasn't a major factor you have to do more convoluted rationalizing for why else they wouldn't have slavery in northern states, why there was such a thing as abolishinists, why the south feared such a movement would succeed in ending slavery, etc.

The north didn't go to war specifically to free the slaves, they went to preserve the union. But the south seceded precisely because there was a growing cultural divide on that issue and Lincoln was not in favor of slavery so they feared he would abolish it. And once the war ended that's exactly what happened.

The Batlord · 07-20-2020, 03:08 PM

Yeah I'm not saying it wasn't a legitimate sentiment. I'm sure anyone but a pure sociopath must have had some conflicting emotions even just deep down but there's lots of social and political issues people feel some kind of way about that politicians don't really bother acknowledging legislatively until it becomes either a threat to re-election or an opportunity for elevation. But I can totally believe that Northern states opposed new slave states being admitted into the Union because the North's and the South's economic differences were creating a political division. I can also believe that Lost Cause Confederate revisionism strikes again though.

OccultHawk · 07-20-2020, 03:36 PM

Most people who fought for the north just wanted a job.

Anteater · 07-20-2020, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rostasi

Trump consults Bush torture lawyer on how to skirt law and rule by decree.

rostasi · 07-20-2020, 04:21 PM

bbbuuh, bbuhh ... sputter, sputter... buht whatabout!!!! ...

SGR · 07-20-2020, 04:29 PM

Instead of arguing about who's committing tu quoque fallacies, why can't we just agree that both Obama and Bush were violent warmongers?

Then we can argue about degree.

Anteater · 07-20-2020, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rostasi

bbbuuh, bbuhh ... sputter, sputter... buht whatabout!!!! ...

I dunno about yoo Rosta, but I think he's very picturesque.

OccultHawk · 07-20-2020, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundgardenRocks

Instead of arguing about who's committing tu quoque fallacies, why can't we just agree that both Obama and Bush were violent warmongers?

Then we can argue about degree.

I think everyone does agree

07-20-2020, 03:36 PM	#6895 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	Most people who fought for the north just wanted a job. __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

07-20-2020, 02:20 PM	#6893 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	It seems to me that to assume that wasn't a major factor you have to do more convoluted rationalizing for why else they wouldn't have slavery in northern states, why there was such a thing as abolishinists, why the south feared such a movement would succeed in ending slavery, etc. The north didn't go to war specifically to free the slaves, they went to preserve the union. But the south seceded precisely because there was a growing cultural divide on that issue and Lincoln was not in favor of slavery so they feared he would abolish it. And once the war ended that's exactly what happened.

07-20-2020, 04:21 PM	#6897 (permalink)
rostasi . Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 4,007	bbbuuh, bbuhh ... sputter, sputter... buht whatabout!!!! ...

07-20-2020, 04:29 PM	#6898 (permalink)
SGR No Ice In My Bourbon Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: /dev/null Posts: 4,326	Instead of arguing about who's committing tu quoque fallacies, why can't we just agree that both Obama and Bush were violent warmongers? Then we can argue about degree.