Political Discussions for "Adults"

SGR · 07-27-2020, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I think it's more fundamental than just the specifics of modern society and voting culture. I don't think the last couple hundred years of democracy have done much to change how people relate to and interact with power and the establishment. People treat the presidency as much more important than Congress because deep down we're still just peasants looking for an authority figure to make all the decisions that we have no time, power, or inclination to make while we're either harvesting crops or managing our portfolios in much the same way that people have interacted with our leaders all throughout history.

I think you've got a good point here. More people participate in presidential elections than in local government (i.e., they're only meaningfully engaging in the political election process once every four years) and that's definitely an issue. But, at the same time, I think you would likely agree (correct me if I'm wrong) that the president does have more power than he/she should. Engaging in war without congressional approval, executive orders, judicial appointments, supreme court appointments, foreign policy, etc. The president probably has more power in modern times than ever before in US history. Though the "peasant mindset" that seeks a preferable authority figure is a real thing, the president does have serious power and is certainly an important political decision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

The novelty of democracy is almost just a gimmick so that the populace can puff out their chests and feel important even though they have no intention of actually being civically engaged in a way that would meaningfully transfer any power from the government to us.

This is an honest question - is the system even designed to allow us to do this (this being: "meaningfully transfer any power from the government to us.")? I mean, there are probably incremental improvements that can be made, but if I was a rich, powerful person in government or in corporate business, I'd likely make sure that the system was as geared towards me keeping power as it possibly could be. I imagine most in power think like this.

Anteater · 07-27-2020, 08:07 PM

Hmn...Frank Herbert might have gotten my vote if he had lived and run for office. Futures-Past Editions: LOST INTERVIEW: FUTURISTIC MEDITATIONS FROM DUNE’S FRANK HERBERT Part II

Quote:

Interviewer: How do you feel we could put the power in the hands of the people?

HERBERT: Well, I think there are several ways to do it. Governments, being power centers, as I said before, attract the corrupt and the corruptible. So we have to go after the problem of how do we design our Governments, so that we attract people who are not corruptible, or not easy to corrupt, anyway. The Romans solved it a long time ago. Before they got on their empire kick they went out and got a leader and said, "You're the boss for a year or two. But that's it!"

One of the things I would do - If I could wave a magic wand - I would give us a six-year presidency, 'no re-election. A two-term, maximum four-year senator, and a one-term, four-year congressman. If they can't discover how the system works in Washington within a month of being there (hell, I discovered within two weeks of working for a senator), then they aren't bright enough to belong there. It's a privilege to work for your society. Not a right, not something earned by being there forever. We have to keep them in for short terms, attract good people with high, pay. And if I had my say about it, I'd make it a criminal offense with long prison terms for any military officer to accept a job with a defense after a retirement. That's handing the fox the key to the henhouse and saying, "I'm going to be gone for the night." That's an invitation to corruption, and of course that's what we get.

We have the instruments and we have the precedents for handing power back to the people. I think government ought to be an experience. You know, when this government was formed it was called, worldwide, "The Great Experiment." Somewhere along the line we carved it in stone. Experiments are things you test and find out what's wrong with them. Right?

SGR · 07-27-2020, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

Hmn...Frank Herbert might have gotten my vote if he had lived and run for office. Futures-Past Editions: LOST INTERVIEW: FUTURISTIC MEDITATIONS FROM DUNE’S FRANK HERBERT Part II

Very interesting. I don't think I've read any of Frank Herbert's work but he's got a good point here. Term limits. Sign me up. Despite Tom Steyer being an uncharismatic goofball, he was right on that front.

I'd probably vote for H.L. Mencken if I had the chance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by H.L. Mencken

As democracy is perfected, the office of the president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
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The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
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Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage.

**Frownland** · 07-27-2020, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

I think it's a fair question to ask people who voted in the Demoratic primary, and are considering not voting for Biden in the Fall:

You participated in the primary. It didn't go your way, and now you're going to take your football and go home.

Politics aren't sports, framing them as such is pretty telling.

I'm considering not voting for Biden but I still intend on voting so I'm still using my...football. Like elph I'm more open to it in the current landscape than I used to be but am still leaning green. It'll depend on what things are like in November. The reactionary anti-third party schtick became played out by 2016 (earlier, really), I'm surprised that you think that this is a point that the bad Democrat team players haven't heard before. You're better off selling Biden than gaslighting.

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So do you think Democracy is bull****?

Nah, voting is just an ineffective way to influence federal policy and the curated options we get at the end of the day cheapen how truly Demoratic our representative selection process is.

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or do you just dislike your fellow voters and want their decision overturned?

I am pretty not fond of Trump voters, but unfortunately I can't undo their votes without committing a felony so...

Lucem Ferre · 07-27-2020, 08:58 PM

If Trump gets elected again I'm blaming everybody that didn't vote for Bernie.

**Frownland** · 07-27-2020, 09:20 PM

Not that I don't disagree with some Democratic policies, but the issue with voting for Biden is that he takes votes from third parties. I would vote for him but unfortunately I know that the people who say that they support him are just whiny babies who don't actually vote, so if I vote for him and he doesn't win, how am I going to be able to tell my facebook friends that I guessed wrong on ElectionBowl 2020? My vote would basically be useless! I'm going to vote for someone else's choice because I am a Pragmatic Adult. Then when my candidate wins, it's like I voted twice because I feel so popular. This won't be an issue in future elections because reasons so just shut up and vote for my team.

SGR · 07-27-2020, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

If Trump gets elected again I'm blaming everybody that didn't vote for Bernie.

W.W.K.D.

(What Would Kanye Do?)

Lucem Ferre · 07-27-2020, 09:51 PM

I'm sorry, I'mma let you finish, but Bernie Sanders was one of the greatest candidates of all time. Allll time. *shrug*

WWWP · 07-27-2020, 10:59 PM

If Texas flips blue I will literally eat a dick

WWWP · 07-27-2020, 11:33 PM

Haha nice one

(Not sarcasm)

07-27-2020, 09:20 PM	#6996 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	Not that I don't disagree with some Democratic policies, but the issue with voting for Biden is that he takes votes from third parties. I would vote for him but unfortunately I know that the people who say that they support him are just whiny babies who don't actually vote, so if I vote for him and he doesn't win, how am I going to be able to tell my facebook friends that I guessed wrong on ElectionBowl 2020? My vote would basically be useless! I'm going to vote for someone else's choice because I am a Pragmatic Adult. Then when my candidate wins, it's like I voted twice because I feel so popular. This won't be an issue in future elections because reasons so just shut up and vote for my team. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x