Political Discussions for "Adults"

**Frownland** · 09-05-2017, 02:45 PM

*sigh*

What a predictable cop out. Don't even come into this thread if you're not willing to follow through dude.

The Batlord · 09-05-2017, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

1. I'm not arguing. I'm passing along information I've gathered over a few months from the experts on this ****.

2. I have no interest in discussing hypothetical situations on this matter. There's enough data out there, compiled over the past couple of years, that it would be a waste of my time.

3. Is there anything you won't brow beat me to ****ing death over trying to flex your supposed debate skills?

4. I'm not here to debate. See #1 above.

See #2 above.

Then stop debating. You've already posted your opinion. Slink away.

Chula Vista · 09-05-2017, 02:55 PM

Does every post here have to be a debate starter. Follow through with what?

CV: I'm against killing people. It's bad.

FL and BL: What if it was suddenly deemed not bad? Would you still be against it?

*sigh*

If every single post requires that the OP must be willing to carry on a ridiculous back and forth debate over hypotheticals or "what ifs" - I'm out.

The Batlord · 09-05-2017, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Does every post here have to be a debate starter. Follow through with what?

CV: I'm against killing people. It's bad.

FL and BL: What if it was suddenly deemed not bad? Would you still be against it?

*sigh*

If every single post requires that the OP must be willing to carry on a ridiculous back and forth debate over hypotheticals or "what ifs" - I'm out.

Once the debate has started then shouldn't you see yourself out of the conversation though?

**Frownland** · 09-05-2017, 02:58 PM

Can I have some research from experts over the years that shows that framing immigration issues through an economical lens creates positive perceptions of immigrants?

**Frownland** · 09-05-2017, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Does every post here have to be a debate starter. Follow through with what?

CV: I'm against killing people. It's bad.

FL and BL: What if it was suddenly deemed not bad? Would you still be against it?

*sigh*

If every single post requires that the OP must be willing to carry on a ridiculous back and forth debate over hypotheticals or "what ifs" - I'm out.

Fair enough. Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

DwnWthVwls · 09-08-2017, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Does every post here have to be a debate starter. Follow through with what?

CV: I'm against killing people. It's bad.

FL and BL: What if it was suddenly deemed not bad? Would you still be against it?

*sigh*

If every single post requires that the OP must be willing to carry on a ridiculous back and forth debate over hypotheticals or "what ifs" - I'm out.

Why are you willing to banter and have nuanced back and fourth discussions about movies, but when it comes to a poli-sci topic it's all whining? The precedent comment made by Frown is a pretty legitimate concern. Do you disagree that if people are incentivized to support a cause for the good it does financially rather than socially, than when it stops being good for your pocket it will lose a lot of needed support?

Anteater · 09-09-2017, 09:04 AM

Trump made an interesting "left-turn" last week (no pun intended) in regards to working with Chuck Schumer and Pelosi on raising the debt ceiling, helping the hurricane victims and pushing for some kind of DACA Act. Anyone got thoughts on these developments?

Anteater · 09-09-2017, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindfulness

And they say the alt-right have crazy fantasies....lolz.

riseagainstrocks · 09-11-2017, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

You don't see how boiling a group of people down to their economic benefits is dehumanizing? Would you support overturning DACA if this particular segment wasn't fiscally positive? Look up infer.

Keep DACA in place because they're goddamn people who lived their whole lives here. That's all the reasoning you need.

In my skimming of these threads, I generally think Chula brings a lot of 'pile on' on himself, but these last few pages is just silliness from Frownland and TheBatlord.

The mainstream argument advanced against DACA recipients is that they are a drain on the economy and that they take jobs that otherwise would have gone to true, blue American citizens. It makes sense to respond to that argument with economic rebuttals. Posing a hypothetical that wishes away the primary reasons for conservatives resistance to DACA is asking to hear the echo chamber answer that many of us here agree with "they're as American as you or I and it's insanity to send a kid who's spent 75% of his 16 years in the suburbs of Cleveland back to El Salvador".

So,
Chula: deporting DACA recipients is a foolish economic move

Frown/Bat: would you still think it's bad if economics played no part/it was a wise economic move?

Chula: that is both immaterial and non-demonstrable, so why should I have opinion on a set of facts that no one can show exists?

Frown/Bat: you have no conviction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

Trump made an interesting "left-turn" last week (no pun intended) in regards to working with Chuck Schumer and Pelosi on raising the debt ceiling, helping the hurricane victims and pushing for some kind of DACA Act. Anyone got thoughts on these developments?

I'm 99% sure Trump doesn't know what the debt ceiling is (or most Congressmen for that matter - it doesn't mean we borrow more, it means we can pay for services already rendered, the money has been spent, you can't stop it on the back end without suffering real credit problems). Also, he's repeatedly said raising the debt ceiling is non-negotiable, so... not the best political operator. If you somehow needed more proof. Regardless, I'm not one to look a gift horse - thanks Don! Keep cutting deals with the, on balance, more sane party in Congress.

09-05-2017, 02:45 PM	#751 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	sigh What a predictable cop out. Don't even come into this thread if you're not willing to follow through dude. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

09-05-2017, 02:55 PM	#753 (permalink)
Chula Vista Toasted Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SoCal by way of Boston Posts: 11,332	Does every post here have to be a debate starter. Follow through with what? CV: I'm against killing people. It's bad. FL and BL: What if it was suddenly deemed not bad? Would you still be against it? sigh If every single post requires that the OP must be willing to carry on a ridiculous back and forth debate over hypotheticals or "what ifs" - I'm out. __________________ “The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

09-05-2017, 02:58 PM	#755 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Can I have some research from experts over the years that shows that framing immigration issues through an economical lens creates positive perceptions of immigrants? __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x