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Old 05-31-2018, 11:29 AM   #91 (permalink)
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Do you think that increasing the amount of support behind Spencer will make it more or less likely that Nazis are going to have the power to put the gun to your back?
again that's a different call as far as I see it

whether the violence is effective is different from whether you can morally justify it
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:30 AM   #92 (permalink)
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the original Antifa used illegal actions and violence to oppose the Nazis before and after their rise to power

were they justified?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion
I'd like to add they also ended up making the most bitchin music you've ever heard if that effects anyone's opinion
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:32 AM   #93 (permalink)
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again that's a different call as far as I see it

whether the violence is effective is different from whether you can morally justify it
That's not what I asked.
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:34 AM   #94 (permalink)
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Straight-up assassination is the only violence I could get behind.
Murdering some influential politician or leader can be a good thing. Sure it might strenghten the followers' resolve but some movements are lost without their chieftain.
Punching some sad Nazi **** or vandalizing some **** is just pathetic and accomplishes nothing except making the perpetrators feel like badass dudebros.
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:36 AM   #95 (permalink)
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does the historical use of violence from The Black Panthers put them on the same level as the government that was oppressing them?

even if you can make the argument that the non-violence aspect of Civil Rights was much more effective, does it make the violence immoral?

now the difference is Richard Spencer has little power, sure, is that what makes violence unjustified? Do Nazis have to have a gun to your back before a punch to the face is justified?

it's at least a tough call imo
Spencer's lack of power is certainly a factor, and if the US government can rebel over taxes then black people can certainly rebel over hundreds of years of slavery, a century of Jim Crow and segregation, and blatant policies in both the private and public sectors that have kept them down to a degree that was and still is to an extent inhuman. But the level of disparity between the two scenarios makes the comparison ridiculous. Black people have had their lives and liberty so threatened that rebellion has throughout much if not all of their history in this country been an option that might only be inadvisable due to pragmatism.

But the alt-right do not currently represent a threat on a level anywhere near the horror of white-on-black tyranny or the Third Reich. Perhaps it's a gamble to allow them free reign considering the possibility of their philosophy rising to prominence at some point in the future, but I consider it a risk absolutely worth taking if it means that "our side" can evolve culturally by finally realizing that you shouldn't punch people who disagree with you.

Oh and just on that pragmatic level I was talking about the Black Panthers are or at least were to my knowledge hopelessly deluded. What the **** did they think they were going to accomplish by arming themselves and revolting against the government? We would have shot them dead in the street and any retaliation from the black community at large would have more than likely been put down with extreme prejudice and resulted in absolute Nazi crackdowns on an entire race which would have been seen as justified by the white majority due to their newfound terror of an apocalyptic race war.
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:44 AM   #96 (permalink)
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Straight-up assassination is the only violence I could get behind.
Murdering some influential politician or leader can be a good thing. Sure it might strenghten the followers' resolve but some movements are lost without their chieftain.
Punching some sad Nazi **** or vandalizing some **** is just pathetic and accomplishes nothing except making the perpetrators feel like badass dudebros.
although Amon Duul claim they didn't support terrorism it's interesting to read about how their commune was linked to Baader-Meinhof, allegedly responsible for hundreds of assassinations of Ex-Nazis and Nazi sympathizers
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:47 AM   #97 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
the original Antifa used illegal actions and violence to oppose the Nazis before and after their rise to power

were they justified?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion
I’m cool with Antifa because at least they’re ****ing trying.

I wish their were an underground anarchist movement that targeted CEOs and politicians.

Kaczynski is the most inspirational activist of my lifetime.
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:48 AM   #98 (permalink)
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german words must look a mighty eyesore when this American types them without accent marks

fascinating place in terms of art post WW2 though
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:49 AM   #99 (permalink)
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again that's a different call as far as I see it

whether the violence is effective is different from whether you can morally justify it
Do you always lump justification and morality together? I don't see why you can't have circumstances that are both justified and immoral. Seems like something people do who want to feel good about themselves.
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:49 AM   #100 (permalink)
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"Düül" is not a German word.
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