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-   -   White Shaming (https://www.musicbanter.com/current-events-philosophy-religion/91727-white-shaming.html)

Lucem Ferre 05-11-2018 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1949579)
Curious what you think America could do to "truly acknowledge" it's racist history. Last time I checked there were no slavery deniers like you have with the holocaust. Black history month is a thing (even though it's stupid), affirmative action exists, etc.. People are still alive from the time when there was segregation between the races. From what I've seen we have consistently taken steps forward to progress race relations in this country. Expecting some miracle fix in such a short period of time is unrealistic. Also, history does a half ass job presenting our ENTIRE history, not just our racist history. You don't learn alt history until college, which I agree is a problem, but not just because it doesn't cover race issues. I fail to see the point in dredging up the past unless you use it to say, "this worked" or "this was an effective strategy" or "this had a terrible outcome". The past is in the past and does nothing to solve modern issues when taken out of context. History is a tool we learn from, not something you use to point fingers, unless you're agenda is to guilt people into getting what you want instead of actually resolving issues.

I have no anecdotal experience of people taking criticism and turning it into an attack on white people. I only see that kind of thing with radical twitter/internet morons that pervert the meaning of movements like "Black Lives Matter" to fit their own agenda.

I've seen you respond pretty reasonably in the past, hoping you can put some more consideration into my position than Elph.
Basically what Frown said. It's generally swept over. I don't think it is a black history thing, it's an American history thing. There were black slave owners, there were also Native slave owners. There were also tons of ****ed up things done to the Natives that should be addressed and talked about. The brutal history of our country is never really taught. The only people that learn about it are the people that take interest in it and have the time and energy to study it themselves. The most I've ever learned about it comes from the internet or through conversation.

I've seen people turn it into an attack on white people before. I've seen it happen unprovoked.

DwnWthVwls 05-11-2018 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 1949609)
We do have those people. They're not deniers in the sense that they say slavery never happened but they're deniers in the sense that they downplay how horrible and brutal it was.
I completely agree. All i can say is Lucem was speaking as if that is the general tone in America and from what ive experienced that is a minority opinion, similar to the holocaust example i used. Ive never heard even the people id call racist downplay the brutality of what went on, theyre just ignorant. I think that kind of mentality is found mostly within the circles of hate groups and the deepsouth kind of microcosms.

Otherwise, fair point. Perhaps thats just my ignorance from not having travelled much.

Frownland 05-11-2018 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1949613)
Ive never heard even the people id call racist downplay the brutality of what went on, theyre just ignorant.
Do you mean that they're ignorant on account of their racism or are you saying that they're ignorant to the fact that they're downplaying slavery?

Janszoon 05-11-2018 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1949613)
I completely agree. All i can say is Lucem was speaking as if that is the general tone in America and from what ive experienced that is a minority opinion, similar to the holocaust example i used. Ive never heard even the people id call racist downplay the brutality of what went on, theyre just ignorant. I think that kind of mentality is found mostly within the circles of hate groups and the deepsouth kind of microcosms.

Otherwise, fair point. Perhaps thats just my ignorance from not having travelled much.
I think extreme downplaying may be found mostly in hate groups, but the more subtle form of downplaying it is extremely common. I would say it's what most baby boomers were taught growing up.

DwnWthVwls 05-11-2018 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1949614)
Do you mean that they're ignorant on account of their racism or are you saying that they're ignorant to the fact that they're downplaying slavery?
On account of their racism, sorry. I was texting on the ****ter at work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 1949619)
I think extreme downplaying may be found mostly in hate groups, but the more subtle form of downplaying it is extremely common. I would say it's what most baby boomers were taught growing up.
Can you give a couple examples? I may just be oblivious to what you're trying to explain. I call my mom racist all the time, and I find her general attitude about a lot of things appalling, but typically the people like her own it and don't give a ****. They are set in their ways and apathetic, which I think is different than downplaying. If we are using different words to describe the same attitude, than sure I agree with you. Not trying to make this semantic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1949620)
2. Secularism certainly is, we do a piss poor job of representing it however
That's because we don't live in a secular country.. lul. Don't bother responding.

Lucem Ferre 05-11-2018 03:59 PM
I've seen plenty of people downplay slavery. Mostly it's the "that was so long ago" or "people are still bitching about that?" stuff like this. People that aren't skin heads.

DwnWthVwls 05-11-2018 04:12 PM
So basically what I said about not dredging up the past... I don't feel that people should complain about slavery as if they had to endure it (or any other historical hardship). The whole "my ancestors had to go through blah blah" does nothing to aid progressive discussion. What matters is the current condition, critically thinking about ways to fix it, and using the past as a guide to make better decisions going forward. Slinging shit over history is fucking stupid.

Janszoon 05-11-2018 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1949647)
Can you give a couple examples? I may just be oblivious to what you're trying to explain. I call my mom racist all the time, and I find her general attitude about a lot of things appalling, but typically the people like her own it and don't give a ****. They are set in their ways and apathetic, which I think is different than downplaying. If we are using different words to describe the same attitude, than sure I agree with you. Not trying to make this semantic.
I'm not sure I understand your comments about your mother in the context of this conversation. I'm talking about the way our history of slavery is often discussed in this country. Here are a few examples that come to mind:

"You know, there were white indentured servants back then too." Indentured servants may have lived hardscrabble lives, but they weren't even remotely comparable to slaves. They weren't systematically broken and tortured like slaves were. They couldn't just be murdered with no consequence for their killer. They also chose indentured servitude and were free once they met the terms of their contract.

"It was so long ago, people just need to get over it." There were people born into slavery still alive in this country until at least the 1970s. We really aren't as far removed from that era as people like to think.

"They were better off here than they would have been in Africa." Hopefully I don't need to even elaborate on all the problems with this one.

"Their own people sold them into slavery." One of the times I heard this crap was right here on MB. People love to drop this one like its some revelatory piece of info that nobody's ever heard before, which somehow absolves American history for the crime of the slave trade. It doesn't. And of course it's also not true so that's another issue with it.

"They got free room and board, life wasn't so bad." Ignoring, of course, the fact that they were property who could be abused and disposed of just like any other piece of property. Here's a specific example of a celebrity engaging in this one.

DwnWthVwls 05-11-2018 04:50 PM
My mom is from that generation, and Ive never heard her say anything like your examples.. It's more like: "mooching off the system" and "send them back over the border" or in the case of this seasons American Idol, "i wish they'd vote this faggot off already" (I think there was a trans contestant?).. but thanks for the examples, I see what youre saying.

Trollheart 05-11-2018 04:51 PM
People actually say this ****? :yikes:

DwnWthVwls 05-11-2018 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1949701)
People actually say this ****? :yikes:
What Batlord is about to say.

The Batlord 05-11-2018 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1949701)
People actually say this ****? :yikes:
Generally no but it's not really rare.

Cuthbert 05-11-2018 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1949701)
People actually say this ****? :yikes:
It's not that bad. Just seems strange coming from someone's mother. Sounds more like something Dave would say down the pub.

Trollheart 05-11-2018 05:27 PM
Sorry guys, got Ninja'd. I was referring to Jansz's examples.

Janszoon 05-11-2018 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1949718)
Sorry guys, got Ninja'd. I was referring to Jansz's examples.
Some people say it, but more importantly, a huge chunk of the population think it.

DwnWthVwls 05-11-2018 05:39 PM
You should join these threads more often. Even if I don't always agree with you, you're reasonable and intelligible.

Frownland 05-11-2018 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwnwthvwls (Post 1949731)
you should join these threads more often. Even if i don't always agree with you, you're reasonable and intelligible.
^^^^^^^^^^^

x1000

OccultHawk 05-11-2018 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1949731)
You should join these threads more often. Even if I don't always agree with you, you're reasonable and intelligible.
Thanks bro

Black Francis 05-11-2018 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1949731)
You should join these threads more often. Even if I don't always agree with you, you're reasonable and intelligible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1949735)
^^^^^^^^^^^

x1000
^^^^^^
x1000000

Janszoon 05-11-2018 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1949731)
You should join these threads more often. Even if I don't always agree with you, you're reasonable and intelligible.
Thanks. :)

Neapolitan 05-11-2018 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1947485)
until relatively recent history even the most destitute white was just glad he didn't have dark skin (still holds true in some parts of the US)
Not true for the Black Dutch.

Not true for people tanning on the Jersey shore.

Not true for the orange president.

DwnWthVwls 05-12-2018 07:36 AM
Im sitting in the dentist office right now and when some white dude sat next to a young black guy the black guy moved his backpack to the opposite side. That dude is woke. Hows it feel whitey?

Update: some thicc and i mean THICCCC white girl just came out the dentist room and they left together. He was skinny af of course. The stereotypes are real today.

grindy 05-12-2018 07:44 AM
They are taking our fat women!!! Outrage!

Oh, wait. I'm actually fine with that.

OccultHawk 05-12-2018 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grindy (Post 1949897)
They are taking our fat women!!! Outrage!

Oh, wait. I'm actually fine with that.
Black dudes who **** white women because they’re there have my respect.

Black dudes who will not **** black women are fools but I will **** their sweet mahogany - ebony queens for them.

They leave it
I retrieve it

Word!!!

PS - Fat bitches, too - white or black- I got you.

grindy 05-12-2018 09:39 AM
Weird though, how often white guys don't appreciate the beauty of black women.
Black women, even ridiculously beautiful ones, always have terrible ratings on German dating sites.
****ing racists.
And when we were in Barcelona all of my guys were constantly turning their heads to look at some blonde bitch passing by but zero reaction to the numerous black goddesses there.

DwnWthVwls 05-12-2018 09:40 AM
Fat men too. OH got you.

OccultHawk 05-12-2018 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1949914)
Fat men too. OH got you.
Preciate

OccultHawk 05-12-2018 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grindy (Post 1949913)
Weird though, how often white guys don't appreciate the beauty of black women.
Black women, even ridiculously beautiful ones, always have terrible ratings on German dating sites.
****ing racists.
And when we were in Barcelona all of my guys were constantly turning their heads to look at some blonde bitch passing by but zero reaction to the numerous black goddesses there.
Dafuq if I know. I might be racist but my dick sure as hell isn’t.

grindy 05-12-2018 10:08 AM
Your dick is a role model for us all.

Cuthbert 05-12-2018 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grindy (Post 1949913)
Weird though, how often white guys don't appreciate the beauty of black women.
Black women, even ridiculously beautiful ones, always have terrible ratings on German dating sites.
****ing racists.
And when we were in Barcelona all of my guys were constantly turning their heads to look at some blonde bitch passing by but zero reaction to the numerous black goddesses there.
Black or mixed race?

grindy 05-12-2018 10:21 AM
Both.

Cuthbert 05-12-2018 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grindy (Post 1949937)
Both.
Mixed race women are rated highly I would say.

Though re: white guys not appreciating black women, true but it's not white guys it's every race of guys.

Ol’ Qwerty Bastard 05-12-2018 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man like Monkey (Post 1949935)
Black or mixed race?
mixed >>>>

asian american women are like the hottest thing ever

grindy 05-12-2018 11:04 AM
The darker the skin the better.
Mixed race rules as well but you guys are still racist.

The Batlord 05-12-2018 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol’ Qwerty Bastard (Post 1949943)
mixed >>>>

asian american women are like the hottest thing ever
>>>>>><><<<><>>><>>>>>

I love redheads but when you mix the races it seems to take the best parts from both to make for boner fuel. Probably why Latinas and Brazillian chicks are so hot. There's so much in there that your dick doesn't know even know what to bust on first.

Cuthbert 05-12-2018 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grindy (Post 1949944)
The darker the skin the better.
Mixed race rules as well but you guys are still racist.
Not racist because I generally find Desi women to be the nicest.

They are People of Colour™ too.

Cuthbert 05-12-2018 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1949947)
>>>>>><><<<><>>><>>>>>

I love redheads but when you mix the races it seems to take the best parts from both to make for boner fuel. Probably why Latinas and Brazillian chicks are so hot. There's so much in there that your dick doesn't know even know what to bust on first.
Feet m8

Frownland 05-12-2018 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1949905)
Black dudes who will not **** black women are fools but I will **** their sweet mahogany - ebony queens for them.
100%

Goddesses of booty.

Cuthbert 05-12-2018 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1949952)
100%

Goddesses of booty.
Serena Williams is nice.

OccultHawk 05-12-2018 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1949947)
>>>>>><><<<><>>><>>>>>

I love redheads but when you mix the races it seems to take the best parts from both to make for boner fuel. Probably why Latinas and Brazillian chicks are so hot. There's so much in there that your dick doesn't know even know what to bust on first.
Bust on that pussy, son.


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