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View Poll Results: How will/would you vote on Nov 6?
Generic Democratic Candidate 8 47.06%
Generic Republican Candidate 2 11.76%
Other Candidate 2 11.76%
I don't vote in midterms 5 29.41%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-05-2018, 07:55 PM   #201 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lisnaholic View Post
Well, I'd say that the voter only has limited responsibility for what his candidate does when in office. As we all know, campaign promises are made and broken, secret agendas come to light. The voters responsibility is to make the best decision he can, according to his ideology, at the moment of voting.

If your preferred candidate has some good, some bad policies, I think you should make a value judgement as best you can; vote for him if his good outweighs his bad, or not if it's the other way round.
I don’t want to circle around but to me voting would be a degrading form of submission.

On another note, I got charged like around $600 (I forget now) for NOT having healthcare for three months. Called “shared responsibility”. No argument ever - even if I lived 1000 years will ever convince me charging me for something I didn’t receive retroactively is fair. I lost my job. Went without healthcare because I was THAT broke and then when I ****ing needed my tax returns I didn’t get it and that’s “affordable” care under the Democrats? Don’t even bother trying to justify that ****. The republicans never did me that dirty. That was the craziest justification of theft I ever saw. There’s no way I could ever ever vote for the ****wads that supported kicking me when I was down like that. That **** was nasty.
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There's probably some reasonable middle ground between Leave It to Beaver and being forced to suck your step-father's dick in the basement after your mom goes to work.
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Old 11-05-2018, 08:57 PM   #202 (permalink)
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How about we take two dudes, have them lay down, and start laying stones on them. Give 'em a good 'ol Giles Corey. Then we take the one who doesn't get crushed to death and we throw him in office. Clearly he has superior capability.
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:09 PM   #203 (permalink)
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I dont vote but I hear they want RED to win.......
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Old 11-05-2018, 11:54 PM   #204 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lisnaholic View Post
Well, I'd say that the voter only has limited responsibility for what his candidate does when in office. As we all know, campaign promises are made and broken, secret agendas come to light. The voters responsibility is to make the best decision he can, according to his ideology, at the moment of voting.

If your preferred candidate has some good, some bad policies, I think you should make a value judgement as best you can; vote for him if his good outweighs his bad, or not if it's the other way round.
Let's say Trump puts that caravan of immigrants in a camp, keeps reporters out, and the next information we get about it is from escapees telling horror stories about a lack of clean water, sub-standard food with insects, people crammed in three to a bed in "housing", and large, suspicious mounds of earth that seem to grow as people are "released".

Is someone who found Trump's anti-immigrant rhetoric distasteful but still voted for him because they don't like NAFTA ultimately responsible for a crime against humanity?
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:31 AM   #205 (permalink)
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Let's say Trump puts that caravan of immigrants in a camp, keeps reporters out, and the next information we get about it is from escapees telling horror stories about a lack of clean water, sub-standard food with insects, people crammed in three to a bed in "housing", and large, suspicious mounds of earth that seem to grow as people are "released".
Is this really where you think things are going? There's no way this is purely from a hypothetical view.
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Old 11-06-2018, 01:05 AM   #206 (permalink)
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It's hopefully outlandish but I don't imagine people thought Germany was gonna do what they did before Hitler came to power. We've already done something pretty reprehensible with imprisoning immigrant children. It was an extreme example about current events.
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Old 11-06-2018, 03:24 AM   #207 (permalink)
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We do not subscribe to the view that Herr Hitler and his friends, now finally in possession of the power they have desired for so long, will enact the proposals circulating in the Angriff or the Völkischer Beobachter newspapers1; they will not suddenly divest German Jews of their consti- tutional rights, lock them away in race ghettos, or subject them to the avaricious and murderous impulses of the mob. They not only cannot do this because many other crucial factors hold their powers in check, rang- ing from the Reich president to some of the political parties affiliated with them, but they also clearly do not want to go this route, for when one acts as a European world power, the whole atmosphere is more conducive to ethical reflection upon one’s better self than to revisiting one’s earlier oppositional role: operating as a European world power means that one seeks an enduring place in the harmonious exchange of peoples of culture. And beyond that, it is clear that the powers at Wilhelmstrasse2 no longer see demagogic appeals designed to heat up mass gatherings of the Volk as strictly necessary. The new Prussian Minister of the Interior [Hermann Göring] can perform a far greater service to the old comrades in arms and party friends by rejuvenating the huge, state civil service along National Socialist lines than by making open concessions to the brutal manifesta- tions of hatred of Jews.
“The New Situation,” Der Israelit, February 2, 1933, 1–2 (translated from German).

https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20091110-Matthaus-Ch-1.pdf

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Trump ramps up rhetoric on undocumented immigrants: 'These aren't people. These are animals.'


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usa.../amp/617252002

Trump gets the loudest cheers at his rallies in response to his most racist comments.
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There's probably some reasonable middle ground between Leave It to Beaver and being forced to suck your step-father's dick in the basement after your mom goes to work.
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Old 11-06-2018, 03:35 AM   #208 (permalink)
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We've already done something pretty reprehensible with imprisoning immigrant children.
Families were broken up with so much disregard that they didn’t even carefully document where they took the children and some families may not ever be reunited.

Quote:
Nearly 250 migrant children still separated from parents, ACLU report says

The 245 children still in custody fall into two categories: Those whose parents have been deported back to their home countries (175) and children whose parents remain in the United States (70).

On average, they have spent 154 days — about five months — in government custody, the ACLU said. A few have waited nearly a year.
Look, if that’s not...

If...

That’s fascism.
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There's probably some reasonable middle ground between Leave It to Beaver and being forced to suck your step-father's dick in the basement after your mom goes to work.
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Old 11-06-2018, 06:15 AM   #209 (permalink)
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^ Times two. 245 children have been permanently traumatized by the ill-planned zero tolerence policy at the border and still the hate-filled rhetoric flows. Also, moving 15, 000 US troops because there are +/- 6,000 refugees, on foot, one thousand miles away is an abuse of Presidential power and a cynical exercise in scare-mongering.

Also well done for pointing out the parallels between Trump's position today and the early stages of the Nazi movement, and for finding that obscure quote from "The New Situation", (whatever that is). The quote shows another parallel with pre-war Germany: ordinary people, probably through lack of imagination, ignore the warning signs and tell themselves, "That extreme conduct could never happen here." We don't know yet if Trump=Hitler, but there are some alarming parallels already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Sexy View Post
Let's say Trump puts that caravan of immigrants in a camp, keeps reporters out, and the next information we get about it is from escapees telling horror stories about a lack of clean water, sub-standard food with insects, people crammed in three to a bed in "housing", and large, suspicious mounds of earth that seem to grow as people are "released".

Is someone who found Trump's anti-immigrant rhetoric distasteful but still voted for him because they don't like NAFTA ultimately responsible for a crime against humanity?
^ The voters wouldn't be responsible for the crimes against humanity, imo, but they could be accused of having made a bad choice at the ballot box. As I mentioned a post or two back, a voter shouldn't be held responsible for everything his candidate does once in office. None the less, do you remember tore's sig, "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice"? Maybe your theoretical voter didn't do sufficient research into his candidate, or might've made a mistake about weighing up the NAFTA pros against the xenophobic cons. Also I would say, as per OH's article, the voter may be guilty of nothing more than just a failure to see the warning signs.

Voters don't get prosecuted for crimes against humanity, but they do get vilefied by subsequent generations, who openly wonder, "Why on earth didn't you stop that guy while you still could??"
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Old 11-06-2018, 06:41 AM   #210 (permalink)
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Also, moving 15, 000 US troops because there are +/- 6,000 refugees, on foot,
If any of those refugees are killed by the US military I’m going to transition my politics to propagande par le fait
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There's probably some reasonable middle ground between Leave It to Beaver and being forced to suck your step-father's dick in the basement after your mom goes to work.
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