I was wrong about Trump

OccultHawk · 07-20-2019, 11:36 PM

That’s funny but one thing people who get indignant about trump saying America has killers same as Russia can’t really be serious. That’s like the truest thing any politician has ever said.

OccultHawk · 07-20-2019, 11:59 PM

I know but I heard left centrists say oh how could he say that about America

PUTIN IS A MURDEROUS DICTATOR THUG

meh

~~jwb~~ · 07-21-2019, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug McClasky

Yeah. Once a country has nukes all the bluster and sanctions and power from other countries are either worthless or vastly less valuable. They can turn cities into craters. Congrats. Diplomacy just became 90% less effective. NK just getting nuclear weapons was a loogie in our eye we can't counteract that makes us rightfully look weak.

And this is why his dealings with Iran are so pitiful.

Having nukes is the best way to guarantee the US won't invade and topple the regime. So they simply won't give that up, regardless of what we do. Sanction all you want, China will continue to prop them up. China needs NK as a buffer state between them and SK. The fall of NK would mean American troops on or near the Chinese border, not to mention millions of refugees that China and SK would be forced to absorb.

And I agree about Iran. The nuclear deal wasn't perfect. But it was better than escalating towards a possible war.

Iran will become a nuclear power, assuming we don't invade. This might lead to a middle eastern arms race. There is no really positive way out of the current situation. There's only bad and worse outcomes. Same with NK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

He did this after trying to bully him

it's a bit pathetic in that context

and nothing has changed

he drew a line and it got ignored

Yes I know he called him little rocket man (best international Trump diss ever) but the important part is he made up for it by calling him a "smart cookie."

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

That’s funny but one thing people who get indignant about trump saying America has killers same as Russia can’t really be serious. That’s like the truest thing any politician has ever said.

I loved that moment. He also said snitching should be a crime. He really has the swagger of a NY mob boss at times.

OccultHawk · 07-21-2019, 08:19 AM

Quote:

China needs NK as a buffer state

No, they don’t.

Quote:

millions of refugees that China and SK would be forced to absorb

South Korea would absorb the entire lot. China don’t play that ****. They just more or less genocided those pesky Uighurs and the world shrugged.

~~jwb~~ · 07-21-2019, 09:06 AM

Yes they do. Or at the very least they definitely want them to stay in power. You could say Russia also doesn't "need" Crimea. But they weren't willing to watch it fall into NATO hands. And China will similarly protect their interests in NK, regardless of what they say to us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

South Korea would absorb the entire lot. China don’t play that ****. They just more or less genocided those pesky Uighurs and the world shrugged.

I disagree.

Turkey also has a record of genocide but they weren't able to stop the millions of Syrian refugees from flooding their country.

~~jwb~~ · 07-21-2019, 09:08 AM

...

OccultHawk · 07-21-2019, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

Yes they do. Or at the very least they definitely want them to stay in power. You could say Russia also doesn't "need" Crimea. But they weren't willing to watch it fall into NATO hands. And China will similarly protect their interests in NK, regardless of what they say to us.
I disagree.

Turkey also has a record of genocide but they weren't able to stop the millions of Syrian refugees from flooding their country.

Russia is always spreading out tentacles. No cultural parallel.

And Turkey? They’re just a Muslim ****hole cluster ****. China has got **** on lock.

~~jwb~~ · 07-21-2019, 09:34 AM

It's not a cultural comparison. It's a geopolitical comparison. In that regard you could argue Crimea is a more vital asset to the Russians than NK is to the Chinese... But they still benefit from having a buffer state between them and US forces. That's just basic common sense.

And the latter point is pure conjecture any way. What's certain is there would be a refugee crisis and neither China nor SK is actually interested in watching the NK state fail.

OccultHawk · 07-21-2019, 09:43 AM

Culture is relevant. You compared China to Russia and Turkey. I compared China to China.

Quote:

What's certain is there would be a refugee crisis and neither China nor SK is actually interested in watching the NK state fail

That’s fine but those refugees would have three choices: stay put and hope SK and the UN save them, try to head south, or **** with China and end up dead.

Korea still has big reunification dreams btw. How SK would react isn’t certain.

~~jwb~~ · 07-21-2019, 09:50 AM

Culture has nothing to do with the fact that China doesn't want a bunch of US troops on their border, lol

And Beijing is apparently concerned with the prospect of a refugee crisis, despite your vote of confidence.

Quote:

China has regarded stability on the Korean Peninsula as its primary interest. Its support for North Korea ensures a buffer between China and the democratic South, which is home to around twenty-nine thousand U.S. troops and marines. “While the Chinese certainly would prefer that North Korea not have nuclear weapons, their greatest fear is regime collapse,” writes Jennifer Lind, a professor at Dartmouth University.

The specter of hundreds of thousands of North Korean refugees flooding into China has been a worry for Beijing. China’s promise to repatriate North Koreans escaping across the border has consistently triggered condemnation from human rights groups, and Beijing began constructing a barbed-wire fence more than a decade ago to prevent migrants from crossing. The majority of North Korean refugees first make their way to China before moving to other parts of Asia, including South Korea. However, tightened border controls under Kim Jong-un have decreased the outflow of refugees.

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/chi...a-relationship

07-20-2019, 11:36 PM	#31 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	That’s funny but one thing people who get indignant about trump saying America has killers same as Russia can’t really be serious. That’s like the truest thing any politician has ever said. __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

07-20-2019, 11:59 PM	#32 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	I know but I heard left centrists say oh how could he say that about America PUTIN IS A MURDEROUS DICTATOR THUG meh __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

07-21-2019, 09:08 AM	#36 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	...

07-21-2019, 09:34 AM	#38 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	It's not a cultural comparison. It's a geopolitical comparison. In that regard you could argue Crimea is a more vital asset to the Russians than NK is to the Chinese... But they still benefit from having a buffer state between them and US forces. That's just basic common sense. And the latter point is pure conjecture any way. What's certain is there would be a refugee crisis and neither China nor SK is actually interested in watching the NK state fail.